DISCOVER HOW TO BUILD THE RETAIL STORE
“Don't let your customers emotionally unsubscribe from your list - they stop opening and stop paying attention"
- Email list cleansing - useful information and tips [8:55]
- What is the perfect frequency to be sending out email newsletters and email marketing campaigns [16:35]
- What the heck do I stick in the email? [19:25]
- How to use your welcome campaign to convert readers into customers. [31:00]
Salena: Hey there and welcome to this week's episode of the bringing business to retail podcast, when it comes to e-commerce email marketing, it can be really difficult to work out what you should be putting in those emails. There's a big argument between transactional emails I like to call those buy my stuff emails and educational or informational emails and I thought who else better to have on the show then the lady who has been called the top one of the top ten ecommerce commentators in the world Chloe Thomas welcome to the show Chloe.
Chloe Thomas: Hi Salena, it's great to be here thank you holding on.
Salena: That's a pretty awesome title to have.
Chloe Thomas: It's quite cool isn't it and I'll be honest, I was a little bit humbled when that happened and I did kind of like I did you know these those days when an email comes in and you just have to step away from the keyboard and grin it yourself had one of those moments. I did my equivalent the happy dance yeah, which was more just kind of a grin and a lay at the wall I wish I should say I'm facing the wall I didn't find goal and walk to a wall and grin at it but yeah, exactly.
Salena: There was notable people on that list you tell me.
Chloe Thomas: Rand Physkine was on the he's a bit of an SEO always a hero of mine he's such an awesome speaker and as such a clever guy, he's the guy behind Maze in the SEO world. So, see that was kind of like that would be the amount of time I spent grinning at the wall.
Salena: So, I feel pretty confident that the information you going to share with today comes with not only a great deal of knowledge, but also probably quite a lot of practice. So, tell us how you ended up in the world of e-commerce marketing?
Chloe Thomas: Well it was accidental, I'll be honest, a series of accidental decisions I left wall during my Uni course I didn't want have to go home for the summer. So, I wanted to find myself an internship and ended up in the world of marketing for banks which was quite dull, but they offered me a job after Uni, so I ended up working in banking for about eighteen months by which point I had to escape and the first people who offered me a job was a UK high street retailer, he ran a big mail-order catalog operation who are called pastimes and they had catalogs all over the world actually even had one in Japanese which is before I got there, but ladies were not in Japanese and there I got addicted to data.
So, I was looking after the catalog mailings and from that, that was in 2005, that then expanded in my remit expands into emails and store loyalty cards basically anything to do with customer data after that I went on to work for a consultancy as there ahead of ecommerce working across six, seven different mail-order and retail brands just at the point where one was sending their first emails. So, it was like as bill I being the kid in the candy shop because I got to go meet a new client and say hey, have you ever send an email oh no he said never sent any email how much date I don't know let's look it up oh I've got sixty thousand opted in email addresses without any money yes that probably would make you money you know and then send the email and have the owner of the business looking over your shoulder as literally as the pounds just roll in because the customers have got so, excited.
Salena: That was a bed people you are going to spend with your multiple in box full of email every single day.
Chloe Thomas: Yeah and it was an awesome time and from then on I've just had the bug and that I've got very into things like Google AdWords and Facebook AdWords as well but email just remains where my heart is, I have to say because it's such a powerful channel for retail it's on average it's about twenty-five percent of a retailer sales will come from their email marketing which is which is awesome because it's a channel you have control of and which you can do some really cool things with but it's also quite scary because of the number of businesses certainly I come across who are either forgetting to email their database because they run out of time during the week which is sin number one or sin number two all they do is batch and blast and they never create an automated campaign not even in abandon basket and you know that's some of the biggest retailers in the UK of not even done anything more than batch and blasts a message to everybody once a week and so, there's so much potential, it's such a huge channel for sales and there's so much potential, why as you can probably tell I'm quite passionate about it.
Salena: I know and you said twenty-five percent and I was just thinking literally just before we hopped on to record this interview I got a text message from one of my clients who we've been building up her email list and she doesn't have a lot of people probably less than a thousand people and I've been saying to it you need to send out your Mother's Day email and she did and she just said it took me ages and fifty people opened it and I've already done five hundred dollars in sales and I said to her oh my goodness like two hours work five hundred dollars.
Chloe Thomas: I take that.
Salena: I will take that every day of the week.
Chloe Thomas: And the other thing say to anyone in that situation is you're the first emails you do they do take that bit longer you keep doing that for three to four months and it'll take you an hour to do it and you'll be doing it better. So, the sales volume will go up as well. So, it's a channel, it just keeps on giving I think.
Salena: Before we jump into what you should stick into an email, I have to ask you about email list cleansing because I'm kind of the opinion that you know most of the people I deal with don't have a hundred thousand people on their newsletter list they probably got somewhere between five and fifty thousand and they hate spending the money going up to the next level plane you know I seriously want to slap them across the back of the head when they do this. So, they just decide to delete anybody who hasn't opened an email for you know a couple of months what's your take on cleansing your email list.
Chloe Thomas: Okay in my own list, so I'll tell you what I do with mine because this is um, I guess that's kind of the ultimate of what you should do is I keep a track on who's engaging with my emails and if someone's failing to engage, so they're not out there not opened for six months let's say and they've not bought in that time and they've not signed up to anything new in that time then I basically stopped mailing them unless I've got something really awesome to tell them about like you know the retail equivalent of a January sale then I'll send out to the whole list, but you should you know it's not just about the people you unsubscribe it's about the people who emotionally unsubscribe from your list and if they've stopped opening and they stop paying attention and if you're not a seasonal business because if you're six months earlier in the answer and if you are a business who sells a lot at Christmas six months is not the right time span to look, look at months because you don't want to stop mailing to people who want to buy from your customer because they didn’t buy, they didn't open your emails in July that would be insane.
So, you've really got a look at what the engagement level is to work out who you're going to email to then now that is very different from who you choose to delete or not delete prior to May twenty-fifth 2018, which is your body Hotel I'm British therefore I'm stuck in the world of GDP are prior to that I would have said never delete any of your data ever because you are compiling information about that person and you are learning more and they may come and opt back in and become reengaged and you want that historical data. So, you can better market to them in the future. So. prior to then I would have said hold on to everything in the GDP our world we're now stuck in in Europe we have to delete every now and again. So, we're still kind of working out what that means because the law isn't clear on what we have to delete. But we're now having to work out what we have to delete because we legally have to only retain data for certain periods of time. So, into that felt like quite a ramble did I answer your then.
Salena: You did but I also you were talking and I was just sitting here thinking about those people who just delete without asking like I sort of feel like when you do that it's like saying to somebody who's walking in a physical store just walking in and they're not buying anything hold on you came in here yesterday and you didn't buy anything I'm sorry
Chloe Thomas: Yeah, I think if you're going to delete in order to stay beneath the thresh hold, I would say is that really worth your time effort and energy probably not because you know it's gonna yeah, anyway it's good to law of diminishing returns around and nobody needs that, so I would be very careful with what you choose to delete. Now, most of the platforms when it comes to their thresholds they don't care, they don't count the people who once subscribed in your total number anyway. So, deleting yours unsubscribes it's a waste of time because that's not going to help you keep under the threshold. So, for those under the threshold you really need to do some analysis of who you should be deleting and if it's someone who hasn't read one of your emails opened or clicked in the last two years then by all means if it's really important for you to save those few dollars a month then delete. But I wouldn't do it purely to stay below a threshold unless that threshold was going to cost me more than a thousand a year.
Salena: I was just siting thinking the thresholder generally tend to be somewhere between twenty and fifty dollars depending on who your provider is we're talking one sale off an email list to pay for that.
Salena: If you haven't every sale of thirty to forty dollars you only need one somebody to click through and buy to actually keep that person on the list.
Chloe Thomas: Yeah and I think often we end up fantasy of not fantasizing focusing on things like the volume of our email data to keep below a threshold because we're avoiding something we really should be doing it feels like a procrastination task to me. So, you know it's kind of busy work to make you feel like you've achieved something in the day which hasn't actually done anything at all to increase the profitability and I say that advisedly the profitability not just the sales of your business because usually the time it's gonna take you to identify who you need to delete and to delete them and to procrastinate probably about that task as well is time you could have spent doing a bit of optimization on your google AdWords or tweaking something in your welcome campaign or your abandoned baskets that would yield you far more than that month or month or month or month.
Salena: Just sending your one email.
Chloe Thomas: We have selected.
Salena: You have been selected but the biggest figure show twenty-five percent of your revenue should be exactly coming from your email list.
Chloe Thomas: Now that's data just to qualify it for the data junkie who are listening from a company called cast Dora in the USA who occasionally produced and always used to produce an analysis where they take all the traffic information from a whole host thousands of e-commerce sites and bundle it all together to produce these awesome reports. The twenty-five is from I think it was November 2016, because that's the last data I could get out of them, but it had consistently been between and twenty to twenty-five of sales were driven from email marketing and that's what it's been for several years before that. So, we're talking to percent of the average ecommerce stores sales come from email marketing and then SEO direct traffic and paid ads or about twenty, twenty, twenty each of those and then everything else is teeny-tiny after it. so, and your email is the most awesome of those channels because it's the one which you have control of and you should be getting a better RO one it then you get on anything else as well. So, it's a no-brain
Salena: I just saying let put everything into perspectives say your business is turning over half a million dollars five hundred thousand dollars and if you are failing to send out consistent good quality emails I just got my calculator out because I'm not very good with numbers off the top of my head twenty-five-dollar thousand dollar you are leaving on the table.
Chloe Thomas: Yeah.
Salena: that's huge.
Chloe Thomas: Is massive.
Salena: that’s a hundred and twenty-five thousand dollars that could potentially be pure profit because you don't pay out to bring those people in you're not paying your google AdWords you're not paying your Facebook ads these are people who are already on your list who have indicated that they want to buy your stuff.
Chloe Thomas: Yeah, it puts the whole getting worried about the extra twenty dollar a month for the size of your list into perspective or it does not.
Salena: It does, tell us with all this data that we have out here in Australia with all this data that you have with all the people or businesses that you're exposed to what do you find is the perfect frequency to be sending out email newsletters and email marketing campaigns.
Chloe Thomas: The evil email question, I believe that you should send emails at a frequency where you have something interesting to say to the customer you know it's not a case of going oh we must send once a week as Chloe said we should send once a week it's a case of do you have something interesting to say to the customer most businesses have something interesting to say on a bi-weekly or weekly basis you know it's beat but don't go thinking oh my god we've got nothing to send and I must send an email if you've got nothing interesting to send it's not going to get the great results you want.
So, I would say somewhere depending on the size of your business depending on the stuff that's going on in your business between once a month and once a week more than that and it tends to be overkill unless you're a really big business with you know where you've done the analysis and you know it's really worth sending excessively. I wouldn't go less than once a month because at that point people forget who you are which leads them to be more likely to hit the complaints the spam button which is terrible for your deliverability. So, minimum once a month even if all you sell it sell is at Christmas you still need to go out once a month between January and October and then you're probably aiming to get to something like once a week just because you're saying with the example of your customer who sent out the Mother's Day email the rewards are just so great it's frequently one of the best returns on the investment of your time that you can make is to make sure you're sending out an email once a week.
Salena: Okay, the nest question that people are going to be thinking just ask Chloe then that sound like just ask Chole I can hear them is what the freaking heck do I stick in the email. The top five products that I'm having because you know I prefer personally with retail especially independent retail. I love to read stuff rather than just products, I want to see you know who's behind the scene I love those behind-the-scenes emails there's a company called Chubb’s which do these really funky bright eighties style shorts in America. I would never wear them I don't have the legs for them, but I love subscribing to their email because they've got like fun facts for the weekend they send out their email on a Friday and it's like you know three things you could do this weekend and they're always really cool, they're really fun and even though I don't buy their product I still send them emailing marketing junky because I love what they send out. So. tell me with all this knowledge that you have what do you find you know is there a mix is it one or the other like what works what gets you that twenty-five revenues that people are going I want that.
Chloe Thomas: Okay I warn you I could go on for several hours on this topic help helping people beat their broadcasting block you know what to put in my emails is something I'm quite I spend quite a lot of time talking about. So, I will try and keep this bullet pointy for you all so the first thing to do is to have an app to set yourself up with a calendar of what you're going to be sending get to basically get organized create your spreadsheet with a box per week of the year and work out what you're gonna send in each of those weeks and what you will find is that you know last order dates for Christmas January sale, Mother's Day, bank holidays, Australia Day, July the whatever the big events are in your country and for your customers you will find actually probably a third to half of those weeks get filled up with that.
So, it's like alright okay, so those are kind of no-brainer weeks as to what I'm going to send or what the subject of what I'm going to send is and then that that leaves you with only a much smaller number of weeks to actually have to get inspired about that I find that tends to make the whole oh my god what are we going to say you feel a little bit simpler because it doesn't feel like you could have come up with ideas for the next fifty-two weeks, it comes up more like I've got a fun idea for this week and then next we come on to Easter. So, we're fine and so that's my first tip is get organized and get yourself a calendar then we've kind of got the banker emails okay they're really _ the ones which are always going to bring in the money.
These will be your best sellers you know top five best sellers because as humans we like to do what other people have already done because it makes us you know it takes away some of the risk it makes it easy for our brain to process it's all kind of good psychological reasons for this. But best sellers will work if you tell people here are off top five best sellers of this season you will sell a shedload from that email social proof should be in every single email, so that customer testimonials review scores all that sort of thing every single email you sent out should have some elements of that in it even with just a simple testimonial in the footer every single time because that will psychologically improve response by the same token you could then combine social proof with the best sellers idea and create an email that is our top you'd our customers love the most these products that's like catnip to humans.
So, do your customers it's like catnip, so you've got this whole our customers love this, so pick the products that have got the best review scores across your business and send an email about that those are kind of like those are the bankers the quick easy ones sale obviously you want to split that up so you're gonna have sale now on sale must end soon, sale price is reduced, there's lots of different things you can do with the sale message to get people to come and buy from that that's always a good email and so, if I got time to tell people of a little tip I've got to give them to help them understand what the customer wants to hear from them about.
Salena: Therefore, they won’t use the stuff.
Chloe Thomas: Okay, cool. So, what you're saying about Chubb’s and that human connection I think is essential in this day and age we have we have so much learning in our inbox we have so many things competing for our attention and if we don't feel a personal connection to something to a business to their products then we're considerably less likely to pay attention to it and be interested in it. So, building that human connection that people want to see and want to engage with is really important that means kind of coming out from behind the curtain and revealing a bit of yourself and a bit of your business and often you know because we're so close to it it's really hard to work out what people actually want to hear about us and about our business. So, this tip is one which I've been using with clients for quite some time now and it continues to deliver really awesome results.
So, what you do is you do a survey of your customers where you ask them a couple of questions do you know just quick tick box stuff of stuff you think it'd be interesting to know. But the really important one is to ask a question about why they buy your product to try and inspire them to write you a really long answer okay with this is not tick box stuff this is not number analysis stuff you want lots of words. So, for example the first client I did this with is a company who sell or who broker holidays in cottages in the area of England where I live which is called Cornwall and so, we asked the question why do you come to Cornwall holiday? Now, people my god, I could not believe how much they wrote we've gotten so much data back on this. So, many words now you take all those words of all these answers from your customers and you put them into a word cloud tool.
So, there's loads just google it there are loads of these that are free and what that does is it creates a visual image of those words and the larger the word the more times that words been used okay simple. Once you've got that printed out and stick it on the wall because now you know what your customers want to hear about your product what they love most about the sort of thing you do. So, if in the Cornwall example, we're a peninsula, so we're surrounded by the sea on three sides people come to us for their summer holidays and the big word across the middle of the word cloud was beaches and we hadn't sent any emails about beaches in over months because we live in Cornwall who cares about the beaches, it was one of those oh my god that's what we must they here from us about. So, we started sending emails about beaches and cottages on beaches and all the rest of it and it made a bigger difference. So, that's kind of my favorite little method for getting your customers to tell you what they want in their emails.
Chloe Thomas: I read his book after, but I love his book very good.
Salena: Am doing that already.
Chloe Thomas: already but that is the best business like maybe fifty percent oh I'm already doing that fifty percent say oh, why didn't I think of that.
Salena: Some it is like foreign slapping moment is like oh that sound so obvious why didn’t I think of that.
Chloe Thomas: And I would lienees my massages is a bit simpler than Ryan's because you're not spread sheeting it you're just lumping it all together and putting in a word cloud which takes a lot less time.
Salena: It funny like you said you have people when you're in your own business you don't think of these things I was talking with a client and we're actually doing her email sequences for her and I said you know we're talking about who her customer was and all that kind of stuff just trying to get some information and I said to her look I don't know why this has popped into my head. But I really feel like you are people I haven't done the research, but I've done a lot of this kind of stuff you’ll peep I'm gonna connect with Pete Evans now he's a bit if you have him over in the UK, but he's like a paleo TV celebrity chef.
Salena: She like oh yeah, paid we delivered our products to his wedding like they were featured in a magazine pool the other day I was like it's one of those moments where it's like you know a little pat on the back to myself.
Chloe Thomas: Yeah.
Salena: Because clearly, I was able to correlate that I'm like so you see you've told people
about this right you told people that your product was featured in you know major glossy magazine and that clearly, it's associated with him and yeah, I figured that your people would want to hear about it like no do people want to know about that like you said you know people want to be associated with celebrity they want to be associated with top five products they want to have the thing that everybody else has otherwise they might be set up.
Chloe Thomas: Yeah, completely yeah, and it's amazing I find that when I get people to sit down and do the calendar and then they start thinking about what could we talk about and they you're just getting kind of getting away for the desk and focusing on something a bit different it just does remind you oh yeah, we had that magazine thing and what having the calendar could be quite good about you know you're in the middle of the January sale and you get a load of great press well you're not going to send that out during the January sale but if you've got your calendar you can write it in for February. So, you don't forget, so it becomes a way of you know remembering good stories and where the best to fit the main rather than just being so knee jerk all the time.
Salena: Yes and the stores like you said the stories are the connection that same client I was telling you about they help artists they buy designs from artists to help them and she was so many stories about how one of the artists you know her goal was to buy a house she like right there's an email sequence get on the phone and ask her because I'm sure she wants the house.
Chloe Thomas: Yeah, exactly she wants the house.
Salena: But it that connection you know I was gonna buy your product anyway, but now I can feel really good about buying your product and know that I'm helping somebody achieve their dreams.
Chloe Thomas: Yeah, you know the more human connection you can put in the more social proof you can put in, the better it's gonna be for your business because people want that connection.
Salena: Okay, so you've convinced people that they need to be sending out these emails on a somewhere between once a week and once a month basis if they're confident they've mapped it all out, what are the next sequences that you really encourage people to put together.
Chloe Thomas: I mean number one in e-commerce is your abandoned baskets campaign that is just an absolute no-brainer quite frankly, this is a campaign which will capture the email just as someone as they go through the checkout and then send them emails to remind them to come back and buy, it could be one email could be multiple emails these tend to be a fantastic revenue generator. These days there are so many cool little widget e plugin e tools that you can just add in to either your email system or on to your website that do the whole thing for you, they used to be an absolute nightmare because of all the integration you know it would be like a six-month project to get an abandoned basket campaign set up at the time you've got everything talking to each other and working and tested these days the fact you can just turn it on continues just to boggle my brain quite frankly, but yeah, so that's quite a quick and easy one I think that's all I'll say on that one just because it really does depend on the plugins you're using and they've really already quick and easy so there's no.
Salena: Can I just jumping and say as a person who often put things in my car and gets to checkout never has their person nearby. So, then has to wander off to the kitchen or the bedroom what has to find my purse first and in the meantime somebody's managed to hurt themselves or drop something on the floor whatever I forgot why I was even what I was looking for let alone finding my purse and then you know I've shut the computer. I open it up the next day what was that doing here, am okay when they send me that email because I actually wanted that stuff. I just forgot.
Chloe Thomas: Yeah, that's the thing you know there's so many distractions it's not like we're stood in a physical store with a basket full of stuff or an arm full of clothes walking to the checkout life happens when you're trying to buy online you know and even more, so when you're trying to buy on mobile. So, yeah, they're the customers would generally appreciate them, so those of you who are scared of sending one out go and give it a try you'll see them money rolling in and then you'll just be completely bought and I promise.
Salena: Alright what's next?
Chloe Thomas: Next, is the Welcome campaign, I love a welcome campaign, it's probably my favorite of all. So, um, this would be combined with pop-ups to actively gain email addresses, so increase your email list and then use your welcome campaign to convert them into customers. The reason I love this combination is twofold really one was it something like at least ninety-five percent of people come to your website and don't buy .so, why not get the email address off them it's considerably easier to get an email address for an interested person than it is to get money from an interested person. So, get the email address and then create a sequence of emails might be one could be ten depends on how much you need to tell and want to tell them that explains why they should buy from you.
So, it's going to include all that great content we're talking about earlier building that emotional connection with your business telling them about why you started it how you pick the products what you care about you know the stories of if you're helping someone to buy a house and all the rest of all this great content together with plenty of social proof. So, I've seen some of my clients have done it, so they literally have an email which says what the press say about us in their welcomed campaign others have emails which are he's some of our customer reviews that's all that's in the emails just a selection of customer reviews just to build that person's relationship and their trust with your business as they go through the Welcome campaign now usually I see welcomed campaigns convert customers at around the twenty to twenty-five percent mark, so that means if you get a thousand people onto your list you're welcome campaign is going to convert. Oh, now, I can't do the math now.
Salena: This is why
Chloe Thomas: I haven't yet finished my morning coffee that's a problem. So, if that's going to convert a thousand people signed up you're gonna get two hundred to two hundred and fifty of them to buy with that welcome campaign and as I said I mean a lot of people fail to do welcome company because they can't work out what to put in it well hopefully the discussion earlier today has helped you work out some of the things to put in it yes the word cloud is going to be important um, but the other thing is a lot of those emails you're going to create for the welcome campaign are emails you could send out as your regular broadcast as well you know. So, if you've created an email for the welcome campaign which is what the press says about us that has a selection of articles and comments and reviews from the press about your products why not send that out as one of your broadcasts you know. So, you can get kind of double-whammy from the time it takes you to create the email. So, you create the email put it live in your welcomed campaign the same week you send it out to everybody on the list that's a good use of your time.
Salena: And while you were talking I just did these five times to make sure it's correct because it's morning for you and its late night for me, let's say that you did get the thousand people and the two hundred and fifty converted with a very modest average order value of fifty dollars that's twelve and a half thousand dollars.
Chloe Thomas: Yeah.
Salena: Nothing you've already set it up it's all on automatic pilot.
Chloe Thomas: Yeah and it just goes and goes and goes and I suppose that's a good thing to say is try and create every single one of those welcome campaign emails as something which will last for at least six months without having to be refreshed. So, rather than saying our best-selling products say our best-selling categories because that tends to have a bit more longevity to it. So, few tweaks like that mean you don't have to refresh your welcome campaign too often which means it just churns money for you.
Salena: That’s nice and I know that on my team amazing marketing assistant marketing manager Monica just did an email campaign for a client and I think something like within six weeks it generated thirty thousand dollars to a very modest list as well I think the least was only about five thousand you know just because they hadn't been doing it and by the time she put the sequence together for that client for us then who's gonna say no to thirty thousand dollars not me.
Chloe Thomas: Yeah, exactly bring it on.
Salena: All right, so you've obviously got a lot to share with people and I know that you have written a book about this, so tell us a little bit about the book because I'm really interested to hear what's inside of it.
Chloe Thomas: Okay, so the book you're referring to is called customer persuasion how to influence your customers to buy more on why an ethical approach will always win and everything thinking about yeah, everything we've been talking about today is within that book it' introduces my model of the customer master plan which is ecommerce broken down into six circles and five arrows which takes you from the point at which someone knows nothing about you through to the point at which they buy from you again and again and again through various customer relationship levels and then the book focuses on how to move people from between each of those customer relationship levels.
So, it's all about basically building loyalty from day one through to the end of their journey with you and how to get as much money as possible out of those customers and it's full of huge amounts of practical advice in fact, let me read you out one of the reviews because I've got it in front of you, this is from Ian Jindal he's the editor of internet retailing in the UK which is our biggest most prestigious industry source of news I suppose and he says it's a compendious overview of the selling processes online all from the position of an ethical and authentic connection with the customer. So, there you go loads of ideas in there, I have feedback from people that it gives them far to bigger to-do lists, but I take that as a good thing not a bad thing and it's available as eBook audiobook and paperback on all the Amazon platforms and if you want to get a taster of it you can get the first two chapters for free at customer persuasion dot co.UK.
Salena: Wow, I like that it a little taster maybe put a couple of thing into play and so you can see how effective it is.
Chloe Thomas: Exactly.
Salena: And if people want to know more about you about all of these wisdom inspiration knowledges where can they find you.
Chloe Thomas: You've got everything about me well not everything that would be a bit excessive everything in the e-commerce space about me at ecommerce master plane com there you'll find details about all my books about my podcast, about the courses I offer, what I do to my clients and a lot of great advice for free as well.
Salena: Awesome thank you so much for sharing that on the show, I'm sure that people can take just a little bit information put it into place and hopefully they'll see the dollars rolling in super quick.