Creating A Profitable Paid Ads Strategy For Black Friday/Cyber Monday And Through To Christmas



Sam Thompson and Ming Kang Chen

Sam Thompson is the Head of Media and Partnerships at Bench. Ming Kang Chen is previously the Head of EcommerceHead of Ecommerce Sheet Society.

How prepared are you for the upcoming spend-fest that is the holiday season? Are your advertising and marketing campaigns ready? Or are you just going to rely on what you’ve always done (hint: that’s NOT going to work this year)?

Joining me to uncover where and when to invest your money to maximize your sales this holiday season in this collaboration episode with the National Online Retailers Association (NORA), Sam Thompson (Bench), and Ming Kang Chen (Sheet Society).

** Get the BF Bundle now and use it for your big weekend to offer the best product/s that convert!

The topics discussed include the importance of planning and strategizing for the Black Friday and Cyber Monday sales period, the use of data to inform marketing decisions, the allocation of budget for brand and performance marketing, and the potential for discounts and offers to attract customers during the holiday season. The guests emphasize the need to understand customer behavior and preferences in order to effectively target and engage with them. They also discuss the importance of measuring and analyzing the impact of marketing efforts to ensure a positive return on investment. Overall, the guests provide insights and strategies for retailers to maximize their sales and marketing efforts during the holiday season.


| **Timestamp** | **Summary** |
| ————- | ———– |
| 00:00 | Introduction |
| 00:05 | Topic 1: Importance of exercise |
| 01:20 | Topic 2: Benefits of a healthy diet |
| 03:10 | Topic 3: Mental health and self-care |
| 04:45 | Topic 4: The role of sleep in overall health |
| 06:30 | Topic 5: Managing stress |
| 08:15 | Topic 6: Importance of regular check-ups |
| 09:40 | Conclusion |
| 00:00:00 | Introduction to the podcast and discussion about busy lives |
| 00:01:09 | Contemplating moving and enjoying the fruits of labor |
| 00:03:04 | Importance of planning for Black Friday and Cyber Monday |
| 00:04:06 | Using data to create profitable campaigns |
| 00:05:16 | Importance of paid ads and running ads on various platforms |
| 00:06:20 | Promoting the “How to Create a Crazy Successful Sales Campaign in a Weekend” program |
| 00:08:31 | Discussion with Ming Kang Chen and Sam Thompson about marketing strategies |
| 00:09:56 | Marketing non-traditional Christmas gifts |
| 00:10:40 | Self-gifting and indulgence during the holiday season |
| 00:10:37 | Factors that lead to increased spending during the holidays |
| 00:11:08 | People feel more inclined to spend on themselves during the holidays |
| 00:11:35 | Shoppers are willing to buy things they didn’t plan on buying |
| 00:12:06 | Consumers are less loyal to brands during the holidays |
| 00:12:20 | Despite economic uncertainty, people have record-high savings |
| 00:13:01 | Some professions have more free time and money during the holidays |
| 00:13:30 | Increased media consumption during the holidays |
| 00:14:11 | Data can be used to inform targeting strategies |
| 00:15:36 | First-party data from brand websites is valuable for retargeting |
| 00:16:33 | Other data sources like Amazon and social media can inform strategies |
| 00:17:54 | Small data: interviewing and speaking to customers for insights. |
| 00:18:32 | Generating hypotheses and using big data to validate them. |
| 00:19:06 | Maximizing sales during Black Friday and Cyber Monday. |
| 00:20:03 | Planning and implementing campaigns for the sales period. |
| 00:21:58 | Building remarketing audiences for future campaigns. |
| 00:22:00 | Testing offers during the sales period. |
| 00:22:32 | Taking advantage of the cost of media during the runway period. |
| 00:24:18 | Testing creative messaging and optimizing campaigns before peak sales periods. |
| 00:25:07 | Allocating 20-30% of budget for building customer base during runway. |
| 00:25:37 | Considering customers, products, competitors, and online presence for budget allocation. |
| 00:25:41 | Considerations for holiday period sales and post-sale period sales |
| 00:26:10 | Importance of customer experience and brand loyalty |
| 00:27:03 | Allocating marketing budget between brand spend and performance spend |
| 00:28:00 | Challenges in convincing stakeholders about budget allocation |
| 00:28:28 | Trend of bringing search and social media in-house |
| 00:29:11 | Diversifying channel mix and investing in brand strategies |
| 00:30:06 | Demonstrating return on investment and measuring effectiveness |
| 00:30:40 | Benefits of brand campaigns and top-of-funnel advertising |
| 00:31:56 | Difficulty in transitioning from performance marketing to brand marketing |
| 00:32:38 | Importance of smart brand media strategies and measuring impact |
| 00:33:06 | Discussing the importance of looking at overall spend and revenue. |
| 00:34:07 | Explaining why Black Friday can be useful for a premium brand. |
| 00:35:22 | Talking about the opportunity to attract new customers during Black Friday. |
| 00:36:51 | Advising caution with discounts to avoid devaluing products. |
| 00:37:15 | Sharing a tip on getting discounts through retargeting. |
| 00:37:33 | Suggesting value-driven offers after Black Friday and before Christmas. |
| 00:38:10 | Disagreeing and suggesting peak sales during Black Friday. |
| 00:39:25 | Discussing the combination of above the line and below the line activity. |
| 00:40:09 | Emphasizing the importance of being present in the market. |
| 00:40:12 | Brand awareness budget and above/below the line activity |
| 00:40:32 | Importance of targeting different mindsets during Christmas season |
| 00:41:23 | Leveraging data and analyzing customer behavior after Christmas rush |
| 00:42:04 | Opportunities for cross-selling and finding new customers |
| 00:42:50 | Spending time on planning, optimization, and analysis of data |
| 00:43:19 | Advantage of marketing during summer break in the southern hemisphere |
| 00:43:43 | Leveraging sales, data, and cash after Christmas |
| 00:44:08 | Validating assumptions and learning from customer behavior |
| 00:45:19 | Sparking extra purchases through targeted messaging |
| 00:45:58 | Performance-driven campaign to close out the season |
| 00:46:42 | Importance of testing and learning in post-Christmas period |
| 00:47:16 | Peak window of digital consumption and data |
| 00:48:19 | Tips to scale campaigns: diversify channel mix and measure impact |
| 00:49:28 | Measures to determine effectiveness of brand campaigns |
| 00:50:03 | Impact of branding on bottom line |
| 00:51:08 | Assessing impact of brand campaigns through surveys and tagging |
| 00:52:02 | Scaling campaigns by finding new audiences and diversifying channels |
| 00:53:43 | Anticipating and preparing for competition during Christmas |
| 00:54:20 | Competitive conquesting as a tactic to attract competitors’ customers |
| 00:54:57 | The importance of the runway period before Christmas |
| 00:55:00 | Importance of being aware of competitors’ marketing strategies |
| 00:55:49 | Using past Christmas campaigns to prepare for the future |
| 00:56:30 | Utilizing friends’ screenshots to gain insight into targeted ads |
| 00:57:15 | The importance of relevance and smart ad spend |
| 00:58:06 | Comparing reach and quality of digital ads to billboards |
| 01:00:10 | The impact and reach of billboards |
| 01:01:30 | Diversification of channels and the benefits of using both digital and billboards |
| 01:01:52 | Discussion about billboards and their effectiveness |
| 01:02:27 | Low barrier to entry for digital billboards |
| 01:03:00 | Previously, running a scale campaign was expensive |
| 01:03:33 | The industry is evolving in terms of measuring impact |
| 01:04:15 | Digital billboards are a niche platform to leverage |
| 01:05:00 | Digital billboards are an insider edge for smaller brands |
| 01:05:21 | It’s important to educate the market about opportunities |
| 01:06:14 | Three things to maximize ROI: plan, understand customers, leverage post-sales |
| 01:07:30 | Programmatic ads are ideal for Christmas campaigns |
| 01:08:35 | Diversification, targeting, and measurement are key in programmatic ads |

00:00:00 Speaker 1
Hey there and welcome to today’s episode of the Bringing.
00:00:04 Speaker 1
Business to retail podcast.
00:00:06 Speaker 1
Holy crap, it is the end of September. I don’t know about you, but I keep every week. I’m like, where did the where did the year go? 2023 seems to have just flown by and I don’t know if it’s because we’ve been busy. I know that like my life has been very tumultuous and very busy lately.
00:00:28 Speaker 1
As I sit here in my office, I am super proud to say that Cav the dog, finally.
00:00:34 Speaker 1
Has the cast off.
00:00:35 Speaker 1
Of his leg.
00:00:37 Speaker 1
However, as much as that was exciting, he then went and licked the small pressure sore that he had so bad that he’s back in the bandage back on antibiotics and we have yet more more weeks ahead of us with him.
00:00:55 Speaker 1
Just being slightly incapacitated, I swear. If it’s not one thing it is, another. Does it feel like that? Sometimes I know it’s 2023 for me. Definitely feels like it has been. If it’s not one thing, it’s another.
00:01:09 Speaker 1
And even today, making some big decisions in our home life, trying to decide whether we might move. That’s one of those things that just kind of, you know, sometimes.
00:01:21 Speaker 1
You get the.
00:01:22 Speaker 1
Maybe it’s time to move and you start looking and.
00:01:25 Speaker 1
You see that?
00:01:26 Speaker 1
There are options that.
00:01:26 Speaker 1
You didn’t even realize that are out there, and one of the things that I was having a conversation with my next door neighbor because he is thinking about moving as well and one of.
00:01:36 Speaker 1
The things that we talked about is how.
00:01:38 Speaker 1
We have built our lives and our businesses and let’s be honest, we worked really hard to get where we are and there comes a time when you think you know what I’ve worked really hard. It is time for me to start to enjoy the fruits of my labor. Is that what that is? That what the saying is I’m just totally making that up. I think that’s the saying.
00:01:58 Speaker 1
But essentially, like, start really enjoying the things that you’ve worked hard for.
00:02:07 Speaker 1
One of the the I guess the recurring themes that have been coming up inside of it happened at the TR live, but also inside of our 55X group is.
00:02:19 Speaker 1
It is so.
00:02:19 Speaker 1
Easy to get.
00:02:22 Speaker 1
Wrapped up in the identity of being busy in your business and to the point where sometimes you don’t actually know what to do if you’re not working. And I know that this conversation has come up with our strategy, coaches and a few of you guys where I’ve heard them asking you, like if you didn’t work all day.
00:02:42 Speaker 1
What would you do?
00:02:43 Speaker 1
And quite a few people couldn’t answer the question, so that is a question that just while you’re sitting here while you’re walking the dog while you’re at the gym while you are on your drive to work, wherever you are listening to this podcast, I would love it if you could maybe pop me a DM or comment on this post on social media and let me know.
00:03:04 Speaker 1
What? What? What do you want? What do you what would you do if you were?
00:03:07 Speaker 1
Not working in.
00:03:08 Speaker 1
Your business. You’re not on the commute to work. If you were not walking the dog right now, before work or after work, what would you?
00:03:17 Speaker 1
Now the scary part of it being the end of September means that Christmas is not very far away. But before we even get.
00:03:26 Speaker 1
To Christmas.
00:03:27 Speaker 1
We have Black Friday, Cyber Monday and make no mistake, if you are not even contemplating running some kind of promotion of a Black Friday supper Monday, I really want you to rethink that because it is the biggest spending weekend of the entire.
00:03:46 Speaker 1
Here, everywhere in the world. And if you are not leveraging Black Friday, Cyber Monday, then I can almost guarantee that your competitors now there are some a few fun facts that come out of today’s episode. And I actually dug today’s episode out of the archives because I was going to go and jump in and talk about.
00:04:06 Speaker 1
Getting ready for Black Friday Super Monday and how we can use that to build a runway for the promotions that we run over the Christmas and New Year period. And I was like, you know what we did a fantastic episode in conjunction with the Nora network last year and I went back and listened to it and it, everything is still.
00:04:26 Speaker 1
Very much applicable.
00:04:29 Speaker 1
And So what I want you to take away from today’s episode as you jump in is we are two months out for Black Friday flights, Cyber Monday and it takes time to build out a great promotional campaign. Now I have a program called how to create a crazy successful sales campaign in a weekend and.
00:04:49 Speaker 1
By 100% believe you can build an amazing sales campaign in a weekend.
00:04:54 Speaker 1
With a caveat.
00:04:56 Speaker 1
Which is you have to know what you’re promoting and if you are thinking that you will go into Black Friday, Cyber Monday with a blanket 30% off store wine, I want you to rethink that because that is not going to be the best promotion. I’m pretty sure that that’s not going to be the best promotion for you. It’s not going to get you the best return.
That is pure.
00:05:17 Speaker 1
Profit going out the door.
00:05:19 Speaker 1
And what is important is that between now and I’m going to say like the next four weeks, you have this opportunity to go and talk to your suppliers, to build out exclusive deals, look at what has worked in the past, look at the kind of promotions and the campaigns that your customers relate to and build out your Black Friday.
00:05:39 Speaker 1
Over Monday, campaigns based on data not just based on a whim or a lazy asked blanket discount across the.
00:05:50 Speaker 1
Forward that is not going to cut it.
00:05:53 Speaker 1
So if you need some.
00:05:55 Speaker 1
Help creating a highly profitable campaign and if you’ve listened to the last few episodes of the podcast, you would have heard a couple of weeks ago we had Dion talking about how $30,000 campaign Cynthia talking about her $15,000 No 17.
00:06:10 Speaker 1
$1000 in five hours and Ashley’s $60,000 campaign. They all used my ultimate promo run sheet, which is inside.
00:06:20 Speaker 1
Of how to create a crazy successful sales campaign in just a week? And if that sounds like something that could help you going into Black Friday, Cyber Monday, then head over to for Black F for Friday. Also B for best F for friends.
00:06:40 Speaker 1
I didn’t realise.
00:06:41 Speaker 1
But be this could be your BF.
00:06:44 Speaker 1
For marketing coming into the Black Friday Cyber Monday season.
00:06:50 Speaker 1
Alright, it’s Lina for Black Friday, also for best friend, but today’s episode.
00:06:57 Speaker 1
Is a repeat.
00:06:59 Speaker 1
And in it we are going to talk, we talk all about how to build up, how to build your campaigns and how to build it up for Black Friday, Cyber Monday. When it comes to paid ads and using that information.
00:07:11 Speaker 1
To then build highly profitable campaigns in the lead up to the Christmas and.
00:07:18 Speaker 1
New year period.
00:07:19 Speaker 1
And that, my friends, is so important because ad costs are going up. And if you want one, if you’re not using paid ads, it is probably time for you to start thinking about that.
00:07:28 Speaker 1
Because it’s pay to play these days, you can pose all you want on social media, but if you are not running ads in some way, shape or form, whether it is Google, Meta, Instagram, Facebook, Pinterest, If you’re not running ads where your customers are at TikTok, all the places, then.
00:07:44 Speaker 1
You’re not going to be in their feed. You’re not going to be in there.
00:07:49 Speaker 1
In in, in the eyeballs front of mind so.
00:07:53 Speaker 1
I don’t want you.
00:07:54 Speaker 1
His money.
00:07:55 Speaker 1
And neither do Sam and Ming, who are on this podcast as well. So let’s jump into a replay of how to leverage paid ads in the lead up to Black Friday super Monday so that you can create highly profitable campaigns during the Christmas period. And if you want to get your hands on my how to create a crazy successful sales.
00:08:17 Speaker 1
Campaigning in a weekend plus the ultimate primary run shape and a bunch of other bonuses, head over to Alrighty, let’s jump into today’s episode.
00:08:31 Speaker 1
Hey there and welcome to the bringing business to retail podcast. If you’re looking to get more sales, more customers, master your marketing and ultimately take control of your retail or e-commerce business, then you’re in the right place. I’m Celina knight.
00:08:50 Speaker 1
A retail growth strategist and multi award-winning store owner whose superpower is uncovering exactly what your business requires to move to the next level, I’ll provide you with the strategies, the tools and the insight you need to scale your store.
00:09:09 Speaker 1
To do is take action ready to get started.
00:09:20 Speaker 1
In this session, Ming Kang Chen, head of e-commerce of the Sheep Society, and Sam Thompson, head of Digital solutions and partnerships from bench, join me to uncover where and when to invest your marketing dollars to maximise your sales this holiday season. Welcome guys.
00:09:36 Speaker 1
Hey, thank you, Selena. Ming Kang, I have to ask you. You guys sell sheets and I’m guessing that sheets probably aren’t at the top of most people’s Christmas list. So I have to ask you, why the heck would you spend a lot of time and a lot of Money Marketing something that.
00:09:56 Speaker 1
Isn’t really a traditional Christmas gift.
00:10:00 Speaker 2
And look, that’s a very good question. So answer the question I had when I started working at society as well, but I think it’s it’s really interesting is that at this sort of time.
00:10:10 Speaker 2
Of the.
00:10:10 Speaker 2
Year people are they’re.
00:10:12 Speaker 2
Well, so and they’re looking to, they’re in the mood to buy and in the mood.
00:10:16 Speaker 2
To look for great.
00:10:17 Speaker 2
Deals particularly on Black Friday.
00:10:19 Speaker 2
But even beyond those sort of big sales events, what we’ve found is that a.
00:10:24 Speaker 2
Lot of our customers.
00:10:25 Speaker 2
Often they just want.
00:10:26 Speaker 2
A self gift. You know they’re not really buying, you know.
00:10:29 Speaker 2
A queen bed set.
00:10:30 Speaker 2
For their best friend, they actually.
00:10:32 Speaker 2
Buy it for themselves.
00:10:33 Speaker 2
And it’s about, you know, getting.
00:10:35 Speaker 2
Can you know indulging and?
00:10:37 Speaker 2
I think that’s true.
00:10:38 Speaker 2
For a lot of brands, I think there are a lot of items from a.
00:10:40 Speaker 2
Lot of other categories.
00:10:41 Speaker 2
Which sort of fit.
00:10:42 Speaker 2
Into that mold. So I think it’s.
00:10:45 Speaker 2
I think those.
00:10:45 Speaker 2
Are probably factors that also lead into it. And yeah, I think it’s just a time when people have that permission to spend rather than any other time of the year where they might feel a little bit more self indulgent than than during the holiday.
00:10:56 Speaker 1
And it sounds like you’ve got some experience around when people are in that spending mode. They kind of feel like it’s OK to spend on themselves. I’ll just throw that one in for myself and put it under the Christmas spending.
00:11:08 Speaker 2
Budget. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely, you know.
00:11:11 Speaker 2
No one’s asking questions. Then we’re.
00:11:13 Speaker 2
Just talking about.
00:11:14 Speaker 2
Holidays and how when you when you’re on holiday, you know the.
00:11:16 Speaker 2
Budget is a little bit different to what it normally is, and I think the same be said around the hole.
00:11:20 Speaker 3
Period. Yeah, I I would totally agree with that. Even if you’re a brand that doesn’t traditionally sell around Christmas time, the that’s that’s not really like I think what what will we say it’s something like 72% of shoppers say that they’re.
00:11:32 Speaker 3
Going to buy?
00:11:32 Speaker 3
Something that ever intended to buy during.
00:11:35 Speaker 3
The festive season to me that shows that.
00:11:37 Speaker 3
As consumers, we’re all in that pretty frivolous kind of mindset and we’re willing to put our hands in our.
00:11:42 Speaker 3
Markets, so retailers of all kinds are obviously the category that benefits most, but because people also booking holidays, changing jobs, looking to get healthier, switching banks, all of these verticals can see a gate as well.
00:11:55 Speaker 3
I don’t know about you guys. It’s been a.
00:11:56 Speaker 3
Tough couple of.
00:11:57 Speaker 3
Years, right? Like I’ve definitely had a bit of a cash splash and I’m likely to in the coming months as well and given that.
00:12:02 Speaker 3
We’re keen to spend.
00:12:03 Speaker 3
And we’re a little bit less loyal.
00:12:05 Speaker 3
To brands than.
00:12:06 Speaker 3
We ever have.
00:12:06 Speaker 3
Been before. To me, that’s a pretty key indicator that I’m likely to be influenced by advertising as well, which is a massive opportunity for brands to capitalize.
00:12:14 Speaker 2
So yeah, and I think it’s, I was just gonna.
You just said.
00:12:15 Speaker 1
Something to Sam. Sorry. You said something, Sam.
00:12:20 Speaker 2
I was just gonna.
00:12:21 Speaker 2
Jump in and say I mean Sam mentioned it, but despite all the economic uncertainty that we do have, people’s savings are still at record highs and people do have money that they are willing to to use. And so I don’t think we should be shy about being optimistic about the period.
00:12:37 Speaker 1
I’m. I was gonna say Sam, you said something that probably a lot of people who are listening and watching, watching never think about because it’s not something.
00:12:46 Speaker 1
That happens to us.
00:12:48 Speaker 1
But my husband works for a tech company and he’s in sales and like Christmas time in Australia, after about what the 18th of December right through to the.
00:12:58 Speaker 1
End of January.
00:12:59 Speaker 1
There’s nobody here like we all. Go on hold.
00:13:01 Speaker 1
And so for him it is.
00:13:03 Speaker 1
There’s no customers to sell to. It’s beautiful weather. We can go on holiday and he gets into super spend mode, even post Christmas or that lead up to Christmas because.
00:13:14 Speaker 1
He’s kind of.
00:13:15 Speaker 1
Not working that hard and there’s a bunch of people out there who are in that same sort of circle, like, you know, people like teachers and and people who are in sales.
00:13:24 Speaker 1
Where when all the corporates go on holidays.
00:13:27 Speaker 1
What else have they?
00:13:28 Speaker 1
Got to do except for to spend money.
Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s.
00:13:31 Speaker 3
Twofold, right. It’s, it’s what else you got to do other than spend money. But it’s also how much media, how much time do you have to consume media over that period of?
00:13:41 Speaker 3
Time as well.
00:13:42 Speaker 3
That’s. Yeah, that’s the thing where I sort of look at, you’ve kind of got these two really great opportunities. You’ve got this opportunity for a brand to generate a bunch more sales and leads in the short period.
00:13:50 Speaker 3
Before the end of the year.
00:13:51 Speaker 3
And then on the on the second side of things, you can really take the opportunity to test and learn and collect data and maximize your return on investment and and perform and inform future strategies and such. But the real key that kind of wraps that all up is that we are consuming more and more media than ever before, which means there’s a real opportunity for brands to create an influence and that media.
00:14:11 Speaker 3
Tends to be digital these days. We’ve got this real.
00:14:14 Speaker 3
We’ve got this real need to consume media on demand rather than being broadcasted to by TV company, for example.
00:14:22 Speaker 3
Now they’re watching catch up TV or they watch. They’re.
00:14:24 Speaker 3
Listening to Spotify when we want so.
00:14:26 Speaker 3
You’ve got this.
00:14:27 Speaker 3
You’ve got this really nice ecosystems that that brands can take advantage of because we’re increasing our media consumption. So there’s an.
00:14:33 Speaker 3
Opportunity to talk to us.
00:14:34 Speaker 3
And we’ve got money and time.
00:14:36 Speaker 3
So we can really start to use that wisely.
00:14:39 Speaker 1
You’ve got a lot of the behind the scenes knowledge when it comes to what brands can expect during this kind of sales.
00:14:48 Speaker 1
There’s a lot.
00:14:49 Speaker 1
Of data that’s out there.
00:14:51 Speaker 1
And we can collect all the data in the world. But if you don’t know what to.
00:14:55 Speaker 1
Do with it then.
00:14:57 Speaker 1
It’s kind of a useless exercise, so can you give me like a little bit of an insight as to the kind of data that we can use as retailers when it comes to?
00:15:08 Speaker 1
Maximising where we put our money.
00:15:11 Speaker 3
Yeah, of course I can. There’s there’s probably. You can probably split this right down the middle and talk about it from a twofold perspective and one is looking at what data you have as a brand. So what we’d call that your first party data and how you can use that effectively and maintaining and use brand use this all the time and it’s something they use to inform all of their strategy. So I’m sure he’ll want to jump in and speak to this a little bit as well.
00:15:36 Speaker 3
On the first party side of things, it’s it’s one of the. It’s one of the brand’s most valuable assets in my opinion. You’ve got all of this information about how consumers are spending time on your website. You’ve got all of the you’ve got a lot of your consumers e-mail addresses and you can use that to learn some pretty effective sort of retargeting strategies.
00:15:53 Speaker 3
From people that.
00:15:54 Speaker 3
Have shown intent to purchase by surfing your site.
00:15:56 Speaker 3
Or reengagement strategies for customers that might have lapsed or cross sell strategies for someone that might have just bought a product and and could be upside another product. So there’s all this great first party data that you can use to really inform and make some really intelligent decisions around who to target.
00:16:13 Speaker 3
On the other side of.
00:16:14 Speaker 3
It you’ve got.
00:16:15 Speaker 3
Sort of unknown data sources or segments of audiences that you can target based off a range of different factors. Sometimes that we use mostly are the likes of Amazon data so we can understand people’s purchase behavior or on the Amazon platform and we can use that to inform strategies. You’ve got social media data.
00:16:33 Speaker 3
Which is really high on interest type datasets. You’ve got Google, which is also very strong in interest. So you’ve got all of these data sets that you can use to inform strategies and just be.
00:16:42 Speaker 3
A little bit.
00:16:42 Speaker 3
Smarter and tighter in the way that.
00:16:44 Speaker 3
You use those audiences so that you can be as effective as possible in your media state.
00:16:49 Speaker 1
I mean, Ken, how do you guys do it at the sheet society? I mean, Sanders gave us what, 7 different places that you can potentially be pulling data from. And I think it’s very easy to.
00:16:59 Speaker 1
Silo that data.
00:17:00 Speaker 1
But it’s also very easy to lump it all together and kind of expect that everything is going to be the same across all platforms.
00:17:07 Speaker 1
What do you guys like? What sort of data do you guys use to make sure that you’re maximizing that?
00:17:12 Speaker 1
And spend.
00:17:14 Speaker 2
Yeah. And I think I’ll probably speak to that.
00:17:16 Speaker 2
First party tarta most I.
00:17:18 Speaker 2
It’s very easy to be.
00:17:19 Speaker 2
Overwhelmed by the amount of information available?
00:17:22 Speaker 2
And the amount of data.
00:17:23 Speaker 2
That is available and.
00:17:25 Speaker 2
You know, if you.
00:17:26 Speaker 2
You know just.
00:17:27 Speaker 2
To follow, if you’d follow everything you, you’d have no strategy. You just said, oh, great, everything’s an.
00:17:31 Speaker 2
Opportunity, I think for us one of the.
00:17:34 Speaker 2
Most important parts, you know, we’ve got obviously we.
00:17:36 Speaker 2
Can look at our analyze our customer.
00:17:39 Speaker 2
Such behavior of how frequent of it versus.
00:17:41 Speaker 2
What things they buy into when they buy into the?
00:17:43 Speaker 2
Obviously there are things.
00:17:44 Speaker 2
We can look at.
00:17:45 Speaker 2
From a macro.
00:17:45 Speaker 2
Level. You know, that’s a classic big data.
00:17:48 Speaker 2
Sort of analysis and and obviously there’s a bit.
00:17:51 Speaker 2
Of a back and forth in recent years about.
00:17:53 Speaker 2
Big data into small data.
00:17:54 Speaker 2
But the small data piece.
00:17:55 Speaker 2
When we talk about that, you know there’s.
00:17:58 Speaker 2
Nothing wrong with actually.
00:18:00 Speaker 2
Interviewing and speaking and quizzing your own customers, surveying them, having focus groups, actually talking to them.
00:18:04 Speaker 2
Talking to people on the retail team talking to.
00:18:07 Speaker 2
People in customer service actually getting on the ground information and.
00:18:10 Speaker 2
I think it’s.
00:18:11 Speaker 2
Really important to have a really strong model.
00:18:13 Speaker 2
For what your customer who?
00:18:14 Speaker 2
They are what their motivators are and.
00:18:17 Speaker 2
With that you generate those.
00:18:20 Speaker 2
Hypothesis like I think customers during November are self gifting and then from there go to your big data sources and try and and and find the insight that supports that. And if it isn’t supported then maybe.
00:18:32 Speaker 2
That was just.
00:18:32 Speaker 2
Like, you know, a poor sample size.
But if it is supported.
00:18:35 Speaker 2
Then you can see the opportunity available there and you can work with the media partners.
00:18:39 Speaker 2
Or, you know to.
00:18:40 Speaker 2
To maximise that opportunity. So I think it’s a, it’s a bit of an art there. You can generate the right hypothesis.
00:18:46 Speaker 2
And then it’s about rolling that out at scale.
00:18:49 Speaker 1
OK. You just mentioned November now November is big. We’re talking Black Friday, Cyber Monday. If you sell to the US, we’re talking about Thanksgiving like huge opportunities for people to make money. So let’s like come backwards to where we are now, August.
00:19:06 Speaker 1
We’re in the runway, so we have to as retailers when it comes to our marketing.
00:19:12 Speaker 1
There’s some people who.
00:19:13 Speaker 1
Are going to have this planned out to.
00:19:14 Speaker 1
The Enth degree, but there are others.
00:19:16 Speaker 1
Who maybe just kind of have it in the back of their mind that we’ll have to start advertising soon, like Fridays coming up.
00:19:23 Speaker 1
All those things I would love.
00:19:25 Speaker 1
To know how you guys at the sheet society, Ming Kang.
00:19:29 Speaker 1
Gear up for this runway. Like what are you doing to maximise cause you guys do Black Friday. Cyber Monday. Right? OK, yeah. We’ll talk about that in a moment. But what are you guys doing to gear up to make sure that when that time hits when we’re talking four days.
00:19:44 Speaker 1
During that brief period of time, you are maximizing the money that you’re putting out and not what kind of using it for a whole bunch of testing. Because I don’t know, maybe Sam could talk about that. Is that a great time to be doing testing? But let’s start with you. Ming Kang and Sam. Remember that question?
00:20:03 Speaker 2
Yeah. And absolutely. I mean the runway, you know, really the planning has obviously already started and should have should have started and we’re really starting to implement those campaigns now in terms of rolling those out, you mentioned testing, you know this is something that you should be doing all the time regardless, but certainly at.
00:20:20 Speaker 2
A high risk period.
00:20:21 Speaker 2
Whenever you know, I mean for us, probably less so, but still it’s a it’s a very big sales period. There will be some other companies and retailers out there where like Friday that whole November period represents a very significant portion of your of your revenue for the year. So it’s it’s very important that the best has going out.
00:20:37 Speaker 2
At that time, so absolutely in terms.
This is.
00:20:40 Speaker 2
What we do like we.
00:20:41 Speaker 2
Know that our purchase cycle is quite.
00:20:44 Speaker 2
Relatively long compared.
00:20:45 Speaker 2
To perhaps more impulse Impulse sort of brand where you might just have one. You know one main product and you just sort of buy it on a limb. Our products are considered people wanna come back multiple times website.
00:20:57 Speaker 2
View the products.
00:20:58 Speaker 2
Etcetera. And get to know the benefit.
00:21:00 Speaker 2
More particularly, you know in particular.
00:21:02 Speaker 2
Price point as well.
00:21:03 Speaker 2
So for us, it’s about building that story and.
00:21:05 Speaker 2
Building that connection and we.
00:21:06 Speaker 2
Know that there will be some customers who you know with our top of funnel brand.
00:21:10 Speaker 2
Awareness sort of advertising.
00:21:13 Speaker 2
You know they’re happy.
00:21:14 Speaker 2
About full price. And they’re gonna just buy what’s there because it looks great and they want it now, but.
00:21:19 Speaker 2
There will be.
00:21:19 Speaker 2
A lot of people, as we all know that will hold off until the sales period. So in our runway period, it’s about understanding. We’re trying to find the right audiences, having our marketing remarketing pool. Obviously that’s great from a platform’s point of view.
00:21:33 Speaker 2
But there’s also that first party data that we want to click as well. So are there campaigns have been run to click there in eight more specifically their e-mail addresses, so we can remarket to them in the future. Obviously that can be used for, for media too pretty look like audiences et cetera. But that’s really the importance for us is trying to.
00:21:53 Speaker 2
I guess really just build up that audience pool for us to remarket towards down.
00:21:57 Speaker 2
The track.
00:21:58 Speaker 1
Sam, I have to ask.
00:22:00 Speaker 1
You is this the time we should.
00:22:01 Speaker 1
Be testing offers.
00:22:02 Speaker 1
And I’ve got a second part to.
00:22:04 Speaker 1
That question is that really?
00:22:06 Speaker 1
Brief window of, say, the Fourish day is around Black Friday. Cyber Monday is that the time to be testing?
00:22:13 Speaker 1
Out different offers.
00:22:15 Speaker 3
Yeah. OK. I’ll start with the testing side of things. In my opinion, it’s absolutely the.
00:22:19 Speaker 3
Time to be testing and.
00:22:21 Speaker 3
So there’s kind of a couple of key reasons to really take advantage of that runway period. I might take a little step back first actually and and just talk about cost of media 1st and then go into.
00:22:30 Speaker 3
The testing side.
00:22:30 Speaker 3
Of things, there’s two.
00:22:31 Speaker 3
That this.
00:22:32 Speaker 3
Key reasons, in my opinion that you really want to take advantage of this runway.
00:22:36 Speaker 3
Period and get things organized and planned nice and early. And so the first is around is around the cost side of things and when we’re working in digital media.
00:22:46 Speaker 3
The kind of way.
00:22:46 Speaker 3
That we purchase has has shifted over time.
00:22:49 Speaker 3
We don’t just go to a publisher anymore, say the Sydney Morning Herald. And we go, hey, guys, here’s 50 grand. We want to buy X amount.
00:22:56 Speaker 3
Of ad space on your website, it’s.
00:22:58 Speaker 3
Not it’s not quite like that anymore. We buy things in a in what we call a bindable kind of ecosystem. So we place.
00:23:04 Speaker 3
A value on the ad.
00:23:05 Speaker 3
Space, which is.
00:23:06 Speaker 3
Heavily dependent on a.
00:23:08 Speaker 3
Couple of things. Firstly it’s.
00:23:10 Speaker 3
The quality of the publisher, so we’d be willing to pay more for someone leaning back and watching their connected television than we would for somebody that’s just surfing in a a website, for example.
00:23:21 Speaker 3
The other thing that we sort of use to assess the quality of the media is the audience that’s viewing that media space. So we might bid more aggressively if we know that someone has been to your website, for example, and show an intent to to engage with your products.
00:23:37 Speaker 3
Than we would for someone who might be, say, female 25 plus. So as more and more advertisers that are spending in that environment, like during a Christmas period or a Black Friday period.
00:23:48 Speaker 3
And and customer cut through our attention.
00:23:51 Speaker 3
Becomes a lot more valuable the more competitive that entire space becomes. More bids are being placed on the media and brands bid higher for the media space and ultimately the impact of that is that it drives up costs for everybody. So if we take advantage of that runway and we start early, we can plan better.
00:24:09 Speaker 3
We could look to lock away desirable.
00:24:11 Speaker 3
Ad space that we don’t.
00:24:12 Speaker 3
Have to battle those rising costs over that period, so it’s really important to sort of.
00:24:16 Speaker 3
Think about that while looking.
00:24:17 Speaker 3
At the runway period. Now I’ll.
00:24:18 Speaker 3
Get into your the question.
00:24:20 Speaker 3
Around testing and yes.
00:24:22 Speaker 3
Again, it’s let’s get your budgets in early, right? So we work in a digital environment, we use data all of.
00:24:28 Speaker 3
Time and we could effectively optimise your campaigns for the weeks leading into Black Friday and then for the weeks leading into Christmas so that we could almost go into that. Those two really peak periods for a brand with that runway, right? We’ve already got learnings which means that we can work in a pretty heavily optimal state and that means that your budgets are humming by the time that those periods roll around.
00:24:49 Speaker 3
So it’s good to them. It’s good to test things like creative messaging, creative coffee websites that are delivering the best response audiences that are delivering the best response.
00:24:59 Speaker 3
Offers for example.
00:25:01 Speaker 3
To the point where you can get sort of really highly optimal by the time that those.
00:25:05 Speaker 3
Peak sales periods come around.
00:25:07 Speaker 1
Great. Alright, so.
00:25:09 Speaker 1
Who’s going to answer this question? I want to know how much of our money we should be spending right now, how much we should be using during that peak period, which is say, November to just the beginning of January when you got your post Christmas sales and then the next bit afterwards.
00:25:28 Speaker 2
Yeah, I can jump.
00:25:28 Speaker 2
In look, obviously this is going to change on your brand and what works for you, but you know.
00:25:34 Speaker 2
I think you know you could say, you know.
00:25:36 Speaker 2
For that first.
00:25:37 Speaker 2
Part Runway 20 to 30% of your budget might be spent trying to build up.
00:25:41 Speaker 2
That customer base leading them into that period, again you know you have to consider things like your customers.
00:25:48 Speaker 3
Your products.
00:25:50 Speaker 2
Your you have the consideration that.
00:25:51 Speaker 3
Is required to purchase a product competitors that.
00:25:53 Speaker 2
Are also competing with you online and those same.
00:25:56 Speaker 2
In those similar spaces.
00:25:58 Speaker 2
But that’s perhaps sort.
00:25:59 Speaker 2
Of rule of thumb, it’s probably about 1/3 or a bit more on on.
00:26:03 Speaker 2
That peak period of.
00:26:04 Speaker 2
Time really, you know, trying to get more, trying to getting the sales that you want to get in that?
00:26:10 Speaker 2
In the in the holiday period and then afterwards, you know you sort of we’ve got that post sale period where people, you know we we do find that people once they buy.
00:26:19 Speaker 2
The product they love the.
00:26:21 Speaker 3
Love the brand.
00:26:21 Speaker 2
Have hopefully had a good experience with.
00:26:23 Speaker 2
Your brand as well and and.
00:26:24 Speaker 2
Actually a really good.
00:26:25 Speaker 2
Mood to buy more and.
00:26:26 Speaker 2
Extend on their purchase and.
00:26:27 Speaker 2
That’s how the remaining budget can.
00:26:29 Speaker 2
Can sort of hit and.
00:26:30 Speaker 2
And that can be quite.
00:26:31 Speaker 2
A good cost effective way because.
00:26:34 Speaker 2
Your spend should be lower at that point in time. It’s not as competitive and so it may not be as you know, as sexier, more.
00:26:41 Speaker 2
Everything six period of time.
00:26:42 Speaker 2
That is not the peak.
00:26:43 Speaker 2
Period. But you’re you’re still getting quite.
00:26:45 Speaker 2
Quite good return.
00:26:47 Speaker 2
Yeah, I would agree.
00:26:47 Speaker 1
What do you think about that?
00:26:48 Speaker 1
Sam, I was gonna say because that that’s.
00:26:50 Speaker 1
Very. That’s very.
00:26:51 Speaker 1
Even and I I would have thought I would have thought, thinking you were going to say, put a big chunk of that money during the peak period, but you’re kind of saying level it out, average it out.
00:27:03 Speaker 3
Yeah, I would agree with averaging that as well. And the reason being, I think Bing Kang speaking from a very performance heavy point of view. So his his spend is going to be heavily dictated by.
00:27:14 Speaker 3
People that are in market at that time and what their mindset is there where what I would kind of add to that. I do agree with with what Ming Kang said in terms of how you would sort of like that money over time. What where I’ll probably just go a little bit deeper.
00:27:27 Speaker 3
Is that I?
00:27:28 Speaker 3
Would look to split out your marketing spend so that you’ve got brand spend versus performance spend. And we usually play.
00:27:34 Speaker 3
By about a.
00:27:35 Speaker 3
6040 Rule 60% of your spend.
00:27:38 Speaker 3
Towards brand with 40%.
00:27:39 Speaker 3
Towards the performance marketing side of things.
00:27:42 Speaker 3
So we want to use that 60.
00:27:44 Speaker 3
Percent of our budget to be really highly targeted, highly targeted, but in a in a branding arena so that we could inspire our customers and get them into the sales funnel and then around 40% of that budget to make sure that we’re actually converting and acquiring those customers.
00:27:58 Speaker 1
OK. How do you get the people?
00:28:00 Speaker 1
Who hold the?
00:28:01 Speaker 1
Purse green strings to agree to that because they’re seeing money out. I want money back in. And you’re saying, well, actually, I want 60% of the budget just to tell people that you exist. And just to get them into the funnel, but only 40% to actually make them spend some money.
00:28:17 Speaker 3
Yeah, it’s, it’s tough, it’s tough. It’s it’s a very tough conversation to have. Well, I might, I might even step back on this question as well and give a little bit of context to some of the trends that we’ve seen within our agency and.
00:28:28 Speaker 3
One of the things that we’ve seen happen overtime. So we’ve run a lot of Facebook and a lot of search that lot of lower funnel activity that performance driven stuff and we’ve done a lot of brand media for a range of different advertisers. We’ve seen that over time because it’s so accessible now through Super, super easy to use media buying platforms that that really high.
00:28:48 Speaker 3
10 or really bottom of the funnel media, which is again primarily search or social, is something that we get put in house and that brand will run them.
00:28:56 Speaker 3
So brands want and need to be in control of their data. They want to be able to effectively analyze customer journeys and they want to get media cost out on the performance marketing and that makes a whole bunch of sense to me. So we have to say that search and social, all those first pillars of the media mix, that’s sort of come in house. We then see that.
00:29:11 Speaker 3
The next stage in that journey is that brands will scale out that performance. Media blast their target audience.
00:29:16 Speaker 3
Generate a whole bunch of sales and then we’ll get some form of diminishing return or some form of rising cost on that customer acquisition point. And that’s where it’s really important.
00:29:24 Speaker 3
To sort of look to diversify your channel mix. So that’s where we sort of come in to try and say look, diversify that Channel mix, start investing in brand strategies, we can inspire more customers, we can get them into your sales funnel, but we’ll do it from a really smart and effective way so that you’re not blasting money out to people that are unlikely to buy your products at all and then.
00:29:43 Speaker 3
The key part.
00:29:45 Speaker 3
And this is what is going back to answering your question, Selena, who I think.
00:29:48 Speaker 3
Has dropped off again.
00:29:51 Speaker 3
Is that we need to be ensure that we are measuring things effectively and if we can measure things.
00:29:55 Speaker 3
Effectively, and we can show.
00:29:56 Speaker 3
The proof points.
00:29:58 Speaker 3
And we’ll probably talk about that.
00:29:59 Speaker 3
In a bit.
00:30:00 Speaker 3
And that is how you start to have the conversation around the effective use of brands dollars.
00:30:06 Speaker 2
Yeah. And I think, Sam, that story is sort of telling, I think is.
00:30:09 Speaker 2
Is definitely indicative of a lot of.
00:30:11 Speaker 2
Plans. I mean, I think it it is just a journey. I think that it it takes particularly and I’m not sure of the the audience here and.
00:30:18 Speaker 2
The sort of the size of the businesses that.
00:30:20 Speaker 2
We each of us run and work within but.
00:30:24 Speaker 2
Absolutely. When you think about new, particularly new companies or new startups that sort of enter the market, obviously your Facebook, your Googles are gonna be places where you go to get your per sales in the first million and the 1st 10 million.
00:30:40 Speaker 2
Of the business.
00:30:40 Speaker 2
But at a point, you’re right it.
00:30:44 Speaker 2
There is there are diminishing returns and it is something where you need to take particularly people who are not from a marketing background on a journey to explain why not every piece of media can be direct can have a direct return on investment that you can piece, say money and money.
00:30:58 Speaker 2
Out of course.
00:30:59 Speaker 2
As marketers, we need to hold ourselves to a point where we can demonstrate a return.
00:31:03 Speaker 2
On the overall budgets.
00:31:04 Speaker 2
That we spend and I think that’s where.
00:31:06 Speaker 2
You work with your media partners and adventures some great.
00:31:09 Speaker 3
Studies that they’ve.
00:31:10 Speaker 2
Done in terms of how when you.
00:31:11 Speaker 2
You know, broaden your channel mix, for example you.
00:31:14 Speaker 2
Improved efficiency across all channels, including the performance channels like search and and social. And I think there’s even a point to be.
00:31:21 Speaker 2
Made that you know at.
00:31:23 Speaker 2
This classic marketing.
00:31:25 Speaker 2
Sort of consumer behaviour that you know the.
00:31:28 Speaker 2
You know the better.
00:31:29 Speaker 2
The awareness, the better you know, into the consideration set so.
00:31:32 Speaker 2
You know when you think about brand?
00:31:34 Speaker 2
And as we.
00:31:36 Speaker 2
Your brand campaigns.
00:31:37 Speaker 2
Should improve if you’re above the line and top of funnel advertising is is well owned and and as well spread out. Yeah, well planned basically. So yeah. Yeah 100 and.
00:31:49 Speaker 3
Yeah, it does take.
00:31:50 Speaker 3
Time and energy to get there as.
00:31:51 Speaker 3
Well though like.
00:31:52 Speaker 3
Could just do go back to the.
00:31:53 Speaker 3
Search of social side.
00:31:54 Speaker 3
Of things I I do understand for brands.
00:31:56 Speaker 3
Why? Why it is hard to take the leap into brand and why we do continue to use those channels.
00:32:02 Speaker 3
I guess the.
00:32:03 Speaker 3
The overarching reason is.
00:32:05 Speaker 2
This just that.
00:32:05 Speaker 3
It’s super easy to measure digitally. I think you said it before being carrying it’s money and money out. You could pop cash into those channels. You can easily see the impact and and away you go. It’s super easy to report on and then you can pass that information to your board. It looks great and you can pitch from your marketing investment. So I do see how it’s it’s really easy to stay within that.
00:32:23 Speaker 3
Ecosystem and but it is very important that if you’re a brand that wants to either.
00:32:28 Speaker 3
Look to generate.
00:32:29 Speaker 3
More sales and and grow. Then you’re going to have to do something differently and and that’s where we need to make sure that we’re strategizing around brand media in a smart way and.
00:32:38 Speaker 3
Then measuring the impact.
00:32:40 Speaker 2
Yeah. And I I was.
00:32:41 Speaker 2
Just gonna add like it might be difficult as well. Obviously it’s challenging from a.
00:32:45 Speaker 2
Measurement perspective, because there are tools.
00:32:47 Speaker 2
Out there that can help sort of.
00:32:50 Speaker 2
Clarify the like the return investment for channels that aren’t quite attributable and eventually you have got some tools there available that sort of sit above your platforms and obviously that’s great. I I think in lieu of that and not every brand can get to that position right now.
00:33:06 Speaker 2
I think it’s there’s.
00:33:07 Speaker 2
It it’s worth having the conversation with your management team.
00:33:10 Speaker 2
Around how you can.
00:33:12 Speaker 2
Look at your spend.
00:33:13 Speaker 2
At an overall level and how that attribute you.
00:33:15 Speaker 2
Know that goes to your.
00:33:17 Speaker 2
Revenue at an overall level as well.
00:33:18 Speaker 2
And not get too.
00:33:20 Speaker 2
Caught up on specific campaigns or specific parts of your funnel that you’re building out?
00:33:25 Speaker 2
And if you can.
00:33:26 Speaker 2
Bring them on that journey. Like that’s that’s step one. I mean, we’re we’re sort of in that journey as well.
00:33:30 Speaker 2
About trying to get people.
00:33:32 Speaker 2
Get our management thinking in.
00:33:33 Speaker 2
A in a broader sense.
00:33:35 Speaker 2
So that they can.
00:33:36 Speaker 2
Be more receptive in the future to to other opportunities.
00:33:41 Speaker 1
OK, I’ve got.
00:33:42 Speaker 1
A question for.
00:33:42 Speaker 1
You is you guys.
00:33:43 Speaker 1
Have a premium brand and most people associate Black Friday with discounts discounting brands your your catches like getting rid.
00:33:53 Speaker 1
Of old stock.
00:33:56 Speaker 1
What made you what made sheep society decide that Black Friday was going to be a useful tool in this lead up to the Christmas rush?
00:34:07 Speaker 2
Look, I think that I mean this the same at Bellary as well where I was previously. You know we I think there’s a there can be an aversion to it. And I think to to any sales of any kind developing a brand. But I think it’s a recognition that there are going to be people that will not purchase like.
00:34:26 Speaker 2
Unless they have it discounted, that’s that is the.
00:34:28 Speaker 2
Trigger for them.
00:34:29 Speaker 2
Other people are triggered because they’re you.
00:34:31 Speaker 2
Know their bedroom needs.
00:34:32 Speaker 2
To they’ve got.
00:34:33 Speaker 2
Renovate and they wanna make it look nice the.
00:34:34 Speaker 2
People wanna, you know, treat themselves.
00:34:36 Speaker 2
Cause they had to break up I.
00:34:37 Speaker 2
Don’t know but.
00:34:38 Speaker 2
The purchase triggered for a lot of people can.
00:34:41 Speaker 2
Be and is.
00:34:42 Speaker 2
A discount and and we’re not going down. We’re not gonna.
00:34:46 Speaker 2
Go down to a 50% discount on.
00:34:47 Speaker 2
Our product, that’s just not what we.
00:34:48 Speaker 2
Are and you know, we have very strict.
00:34:50 Speaker 2
Limits about how far.
00:34:51 Speaker 3
We will just.
00:34:52 Speaker 2
Ever discount our product and how limited that period?
00:34:55 Speaker 2
Might be in a in any.
00:34:56 Speaker 2
Given year, so I think it’s.
00:34:58 Speaker 2
About playing with those leaders and.
00:35:00 Speaker 2
Making sure that’s the case, that that we’re consistent.
00:35:03 Speaker 2
In that in that regard.
00:35:04 Speaker 2
But I think that’s that recognition from.
00:35:06 Speaker 2
You know to be realistic. You know, you’re a brand your values, but you need to also operate within the retail world and also within the the industry. So we we’re we’re we’re embedding I think we all know how betting can be discounted and so there are also those realities as well.
00:35:22 Speaker 1
And do you find that this is a great opportunity for you to get customers that wouldn’t normally have purchased?
00:35:30 Speaker 2
Yeah, 100 percent, 100% and and I think it’s also interesting.
00:35:35 Speaker 2
To also think of this period as.
00:35:37 Speaker 3
You’re above the line.
00:35:40 Speaker 2
There are things that even premium brands will do below the line that most of us don’t, you know, either if you’re not, if you outside the brand, won’t see, and unless you’re on that mailing list, you won’t get so or.
00:35:50 Speaker 2
Or or part.
00:35:50 Speaker 2
Of that cohort that you can market towards.
00:35:52 Speaker 2
So there are ways that you can run discounts as.
00:35:57 Speaker 2
Well, which don’t damage the brand.
00:35:59 Speaker 2
And that can also leverage the large audiences that.
00:36:01 Speaker 2
You might build throughout this period.
00:36:04 Speaker 1
Same you that you’ve got the data right. I was gonna ask you. You have so much data across so many different brands.
00:36:10 Speaker 1
What do you?
00:36:11 Speaker 1
See works during this time. Like. Is it purely discount focused and is did you think this is the time to leverage those untapped customers who maybe haven’t bought yet?
00:36:22 Speaker 3
Yeah. So on the discount side of things and you do.
00:36:26 Speaker 3
Have to be.
00:36:26 Speaker 3
Really careful around.
00:36:27 Speaker 3
This time of year, you.
00:36:29 Speaker 3
Don’t want to go too crazy with discounts to get yourself into a death loop where customers expect a discount from your brand, and that’s that’s something that’s super important to keep in mind. And then the other thing there that you want to keep in mind is you don’t want to devalue your products. And if you’ve got a quite a premium product, you do not want to.
00:36:45 Speaker 3
Go so low that you get.
00:36:46 Speaker 3
To the point of potentially.
00:36:47 Speaker 3
Devaluing it so you do need to be careful with discounts.
00:36:51 Speaker 3
A funny little tidbit in our industry when you’re using the technology and data side of things actually is if if you go to.
00:36:56 Speaker 3
Or go to a website or or a number of different fashion brands about name names. Get yourself free. Targeted. Don’t purchase. Continue to get yourself retargeted. Eventually you’ll get an offer from them, so there’s there’s a nice little tip in there for people that want to look to get some discounts through the market. Just don’t buy anything at 1st and then wait till you get your offer and.
00:37:15 Speaker 3
So that that’s the first part of our discounts.
00:37:17 Speaker 3
And around time to leverage discounts. I I do think it is time to leverage because customers are in that mindset around Black Friday specifically that they will get a discount. And for the Christmas period specifically, I would probably look to steer clear of it and then jump back into.
00:37:31 Speaker 3
Discount season for boxing.
00:37:33 Speaker 1
So do you think that both of the question is for both of you? Do you think that that time between Black Friday, summer, Monday, well there’s not really any time, is it and Christmas shopping is the time when you put out more value driven offers rather than discount focused offers?
00:37:50 Speaker 3
Yeah, definitely in my opinion, I would go down the I would go down the path of value value driven offers and then looking to see what’s resonating with your customers in that period between Black Friday, Cyber Monday and Christmas. So that you can continue to collect data and use that to optimise ready for that really happy Christmas period.
00:38:08 Speaker 2
Now I’m going to just.
00:38:10 Speaker 2
I’m going to dissent. I was. I’m going.
00:38:12 Speaker 2
To say that for for our brand.
00:38:15 Speaker 2
For our brand, I think.
00:38:15 Speaker 2
For brands we’ve worked on previously.
00:38:18 Speaker 2
I I it depends. I think it depends.
00:38:20 Speaker 2
And so I think.
00:38:21 Speaker 2
For us, I.
00:38:21 Speaker 2
Think there is that Black Friday? That is like the.
00:38:24 Speaker 2
Peak I would almost.
00:38:26 Speaker 2
Face the peak sale.
00:38:27 Speaker 2
Of the year.
00:38:28 Speaker 2
Way and then then we’ve.
00:38:30 Speaker 2
Got that runway into Christmas where I think.
00:38:32 Speaker 2
For our customers.
00:38:34 Speaker 2
The gifting part is actually or but.
00:38:36 Speaker 2
That that, finalising.
00:38:37 Speaker 2
Your personal for Christmas is actually.
00:38:38 Speaker 2
The the main motivator for us.
00:38:40 Speaker 2
For and for the other brands that there are some brands.
00:38:43 Speaker 2
With that, with the same.
00:38:44 Speaker 2
Yes. And I think that there’s an expectation that that we’ll be.
00:38:47 Speaker 2
Selling Boxing Day.
00:38:48 Speaker 2
Which which we have participated in for a number of years, some secret that we probably would do that this year. So I think that with that customer knowledge, there will be those sales periods. There are just gonna be customers in that in that early December period who are.
00:39:02 Speaker 2
Which I I think would have purchased anyway for reasons that are beyond a discount. So I think you can.
00:39:09 Speaker 2
Also play into that that.
00:39:10 Speaker 2
That knowledge in the market.
00:39:13 Speaker 2
Because even if you were to discount, I think if you were to discount start of December, customers still know that the locks they sell so and that probably will be bigger than the one you on early December if you were.
00:39:22 Speaker 2
To run one.
00:39:23 Speaker 2
In December, so I don’t know it.
00:39:25 Speaker 1
It’s debatable, I think. No, I think you can have a good point and a lot of this has to do with knowing your customer. Like you’re saying it’s not bad to just get on the phone and.
00:39:32 Speaker 1
Talk to your customer, because I’m sitting here thinking.
00:39:35 Speaker 1
If I forgot to buy during that Black Friday Cyber Monday.
00:39:40 Speaker 1
Now I got the in-laws coming to stay, which means I probably need some nice sheets and and I’m not looking at the cheapest possible price like it doesn’t. I don’t really need to have any offer other than the fact that it’s in front of me and it’s a brand that they’ll like and it’s a brand that they’ll respect so.
00:39:58 Speaker 1
What you’re saying you can’t just go with discounts and you can’t just go with you have to.
00:40:02 Speaker 1
Have some kind of offer out there. Sometimes you just need to be out there full.
00:40:07 Speaker 1
Stop in that in.
00:40:08 Speaker 1
That 60%?
00:40:09 Speaker 1
Of your brand awareness budget that’s going.
00:40:12 Speaker 2
Yeah. And I think it’s that that combination.
00:40:14 Speaker 2
Of your above the line and below the.
00:40:16 Speaker 2
Line activity. It’s not to say.
00:40:17 Speaker 2
That you can’t offer any discounts early December.
00:40:20 Speaker 2
There will be.
00:40:20 Speaker 2
A subset of customers who are looking for it, but you can do that in different and sneakier ways. Or, you know, playing the audiences really in a really smart way. But I think you’re right that there are just so many, so many.
00:40:32 Speaker 1
Sam’s just happy to spend at Christmas time.
00:40:34 Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well, it speaks to the.
00:40:37 Speaker 3
Importance of what we’re saying before just making sure that you’re in market, you’re taking advantage of the way that people are not only consuming media.
00:40:42 Speaker 3
But the different mindsets of the people going to.
00:40:44 Speaker 3
Ian, so, Selena, you’re going to be a fairly different mindset to me. King, who’s going to be in a different mindset to me. So we need to make sure that as a brand, you’ve got the ability to be able to talk to all three of us in the most effective way possible and that.
00:40:55 Speaker 3
Will then inform.
00:40:57 Speaker 3
Or maximize your sales.
00:40:58 Speaker 1
Strategies off the back of it. OK, we’ve talked. We’ve talked a bit about.
00:41:02 Speaker 1
Runway, we’ve talked.
00:41:03 Speaker 1
About this peak period.
00:41:05 Speaker 1
We’ve got the post Christmas.
00:41:07 Speaker 1
Part. And Sam, I mean both of you are throwing out.
00:41:10 Speaker 1
Numbers of like 30%.
00:41:11 Speaker 1
Of our budget should be looking at what worked, what didn’t, and how we’re going to promote in that that that period initially immediately after the Christmas rush. So can we talk about?
00:41:23 Speaker 1
What do we do with our data that we’ve gotten? How do we leverage the people who did buy?
00:41:27 Speaker 1
Or didn’t buy what?
00:41:28 Speaker 1
What are we doing? That’s not just a Boxing Day sale. Yeah.
00:41:32 Speaker 3
That that.
00:41:33 Speaker 3
Post period is one that people often neglect. To be fair, I think it’s one of the bits that’s.
00:41:37 Speaker 3
Really easy to.
00:41:38 Speaker 3
Overlook we we see the sales that.
00:41:40 Speaker 3
We get towards the back.
00:41:41 Speaker 3
End of November and we see the sales that we get over the Christmas period and everyone.
00:41:45 Speaker 3
Goes yeah, and slaps.
00:41:46 Speaker 3
Each other on the back, and they’re like we’ve.
00:41:47 Speaker 3
Just had such a good period. All right. What? Let’s, let’s look to start finding something and then another three to six months.
00:41:53 Speaker 3
And I think that that’s something that is a a bit of an opportunity for brands to start getting right and and really having a look in that sort of week after the Christmas period to really maximise what you can do in the in the.
00:42:04 Speaker 3
Next immediate short.
00:42:05 Speaker 3
Term there’s there’s such an influx of sales, there’s such an influx of new customers that there’s a whole bunch of data there that can be used to really help to inform how you move forward with any.
00:42:16 Speaker 3
Strategy. The early start, early stage.
00:42:18 Speaker 3
As of the next year, which is often a a bit.
00:42:20 Speaker 3
Of a lull period.
00:42:21 Speaker 3
For brands, so there’s tons of things you can do in terms of cross selling. There’s tons of things you can do in terms of modeling that data and and trying to find new customers.
00:42:30 Speaker 3
That are similar.
00:42:30 Speaker 3
To the ones that have just purchased from you.
00:42:33 Speaker 3
And so yeah, it to me, I think it’s.
00:42:36 Speaker 3
Almost about sort of.
00:42:37 Speaker 3
1/3 of your time and energy should be spent.
00:42:39 Speaker 3
On the planning.
00:42:40 Speaker 3
Third of your time and energy should be spent on the optimization and the execution of the sales, and then a third of your time should almost be spent making sure that you’re analyzing that and making sure that you’re using it to your full effect. It’s a really valuable.
00:42:50 Speaker 3
Asset that, as I said, it’s often reflected.
00:42:51 Speaker 1
Sunday most summer holidays for the data.
00:42:55 Speaker 3
No holidays for us? No, no.
00:42:56 Speaker 3
That’s it. No.
00:42:58 Speaker 3
Sitting on our computers is fun enough.
00:43:01 Speaker 1
And I think people forget that this is where I think we are really lucky compared to the northern hemisphere is it’s our summer break. The kids are on school holidays, we’ve got that extended time off. We’re consuming so much more media. We’re in the spend mindset, whereas in the northern hemisphere.
00:43:19 Speaker 1
It’s, you know, a few days Christmas is.
00:43:21 Speaker 1
Over back to.
00:43:21 Speaker 1
Work where we have a completely different luxury to be able to market to our customers.
00:43:27 Speaker 1
In that time.
00:43:28 Speaker 2
Yeah, I agree. I agree.
00:43:30 Speaker 1
And thinking how does how does the sheep society leverage apart from Boxing Day sale, that that period just after Christmas, because you’ve got a lot of sales, you’ve got a lot of data and hopefully you’ve got a lot of cash as well.
00:43:43 Speaker 2
Yeah. And I think it’s about validating that your assumptions that you made in that holiday going into the holiday period were actually came true. So you know you, you know.
00:43:52 Speaker 2
You use your.
00:43:52 Speaker 2
Runway. Period. You know, you hopefully like the sales you wanted in November, you know where the assumptions are made about why people were purchasing or what the office would motivate them or what?
00:44:02 Speaker 2
Pretty good hit or what they did?
00:44:04 Speaker 2
Purchase full stop. Did they match what you were predicted?
00:44:08 Speaker 2
And I think assuming well, I think that can.
00:44:11 Speaker 2
Help you learn.
00:44:12 Speaker 2
For the next period of time, are we going to change the offer because that we’re we’re planning to run in that post post period. I’m just getting that information, you know, for growing brands, you might have acquired a a new.
00:44:27 Speaker 2
The broader to audience one that.
00:44:29 Speaker 2
Might have been different to.
00:44:30 Speaker 2
Or, you know, first cohort audiences, how do they purchase? What’s the? What’s the difference in?
00:44:34 Speaker 2
Their in their.
00:44:35 Speaker 2
Behaviour. So I think there’s a lot.
00:44:37 Speaker 2
That can be.
00:44:37 Speaker 2
Gained from that analysis that can inform the next part of the campaign, and that’s what we.
00:44:41 Speaker 2
Will, that’s what we would do and.
00:44:44 Speaker 2
And then I.
00:44:44 Speaker 2
Think it’s about really understanding well why we talking to that customer now, so they’ve they’ve just thought about.
00:44:50 Speaker 2
The code that just spend $15.00 on on.
00:44:53 Speaker 2
Some dating. So why?
00:44:54 Speaker 2
You know, the question might be, well, they’re great to just kind of off, but like so what’s what’s in it for me, I think.
00:45:01 Speaker 2
It’s the question that you.
00:45:02 Speaker 2
Wanna put your?
In your head.
00:45:04 Speaker 2
For the customer, and so you know.
Is it?
00:45:07 Speaker 2
To shoot up your existing set is just.
00:45:10 Speaker 2
To it’s gotten even.
00:45:11 Speaker 2
Hotter. So do you need an even?
00:45:13 Speaker 2
Lighter type of type of bedding or.
00:45:17 Speaker 2
Whatever the motivator is is about giving too.
00:45:18 Speaker 2
Much away, you.
00:45:19 Speaker 2
Know what could be the?
00:45:21 Speaker 2
Things that that could spark that extra purchase.
00:45:24 Speaker 2
They may not necessarily, you know, average, orderly may be different.
00:45:27 Speaker 2
At that time as well, you know, for us, we, we you could argue that just.
00:45:32 Speaker 2
Popping up everyone.
00:45:33 Speaker 2
That could be smaller, but it’s it’s a different.
00:45:35 Speaker 2
Goal it’s a different campaign.
00:45:37 Speaker 2
But yeah, I think that’s kind.
00:45:38 Speaker 1
Of what we would do and is.
00:45:40 Speaker 1
It more the brand awareness campaign. Sorry Sam. Or is it more trying?
00:45:40 Speaker 3
You guys.
00:45:44 Speaker 1
To get more conversions.
00:45:46 Speaker 2
I think for us in in pursue.
00:45:48 Speaker 2
That that immediate.
00:45:49 Speaker 2
Post period it is. It is a performance, it is performance through and I think we’ve built up the awareness throughout.
00:45:55 Speaker 2
The holiday period that by.
00:45:56 Speaker 2
That point, you know, we’re really just because we’re.
00:45:58 Speaker 2
Kind of close out this season and hopefully not.
00:46:00 Speaker 1
Just buy the damn things, people.
00:46:05 Speaker 3
I think you raised a really. I think you raised a really interesting point just performing and you kind of glossed over it, but it’s it’s something that’s stuck with me and that was around the insights that you can generate. So you’ll you’ll go into these periods with a really good understanding of who your audiences are, the most likely.
00:46:20 Speaker 3
People are to.
00:46:21 Speaker 3
Our product, once you’ve finished that sales period, you’re going to find that there’s probably a few people that were not quite within that target audience that you thought that have have really resonated with your brand and have bought something, had a really good experience. That’s a really nice asset that you can then use to try and inform future targeting strategies. It might be a little bit outside of the norm of what you’ve always done.
00:46:42 Speaker 3
And these are the sorts of things that I think are super important for testing and learning in that period post Christmas to then start looking to acquire more and more customers and maximize more return based off the insights that you can generate while those those peak sales periods are driving heavy amounts of information.
00:46:56 Speaker 3
And so.
00:46:57 Speaker 1
And it is, you know, certainly right back to what you said at the beginning, Sam, it really is this time when you have this peak window of people consuming digital and data way more than any other time because come February we’re back to work. We’re you know, we’re scrolling here there and everywhere. But in this period.
00:47:16 Speaker 1
Of time.
00:47:17 Speaker 1
We’re actively consuming all of this content and we’re taking it.
00:47:22 Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah. I don’t want to harp on COVID at all too much, but that was a real that was a real driving factor for how we’ve sort of shifted our media consumption behaviours when we were indoors, we were desk rolling through our phones. We were spending so much time on the Internet. We’re watching way more connect catch up. We’re connected TV than we ever had.
00:47:40 Speaker 3
Before and we’ve kind of continued to do it.
00:47:43 Speaker 3
So yeah, you’re right, there’s this. There’s this real opportunity now because people are watching things on demand. We’ve got more and more people doing things digitally. That then equals a whole bunch of data touch points that we can use to inform media strategies that should then equal amount a lot of creative and AB testing, which will then equal incremental sales for your business. So you got this like really cool timeline.
00:48:02 Speaker 3
And it all starts with the way that we consume.
00:48:06 Speaker 1
OK, we only have a few more minutes, but I want to get into a question from my person.
00:48:11 Speaker 1
Because if I’m thinking this question, I’m sure other people are thinking this question. I would love your tips to scale campaigns.
00:48:19 Speaker 3
Scaling campaigns for me, it’s kind of it’s it’s going to be on the same sort of theme as what we’ve been talking about. The scaling campaign starts starts with.
00:48:27 Speaker 3
And introducing and diversifying and channel mix, I I get totally understand and I totally get the need to run search and social and drive as much performance driven marketing and sales as you possibly can. But as we’ve kind of pointed out throughout this session you will hit a point of diminishing returns and that’s the trigger point for me to start scaling your marketing strategies.
00:48:47 Speaker 3
And so to start scaling and previously what brands would have to do, and it was really, really tough was you would have to run a, say, a TV campaign with all the different broadcasters in the market that all have gigantic minimum spends. And you’d sort of get lost and you’d be like.
00:49:02 Speaker 3
I can’t do this. This is way too hard.
00:49:04 Speaker 3
Digital has broken down those barriers, so you can now run branding media at much lower cost. You can overlay data to make it as targeted as possible and then you can start to scale out and introduce new customers into your sales funnel. So that for me is the key for scaling. It’s around diversification of channel mix, but it does come with the point of making sure that you’re measuring the impact effectively because otherwise again you’re just throwing money at the wall and hoping that it stick.
00:49:28 Speaker 3
I can say that we’ve got a question from Fiona around and what are some of the measures that you would use to determine the effectiveness of brand campaigns? It’s probably a.
00:49:35 Speaker 3
Good time to.
00:49:36 Speaker 1
Answer that right now. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I was gonna say one of the things that you also just alluded to is not just diversifying channels, but.
00:49:42 Speaker 1
Also diversifying audiences.
00:49:45 Speaker 3
Yeah, definitely, definitely diversifying channels, diversifying audiences, diversifying your creative mix where you can.
00:49:51 Speaker 3
Those three things become quite expensive, and so making sure that there is an impact and using it effectively is is probably the most important part in my.
00:50:00 Speaker 3
Yeah. So as we.
00:50:01 Speaker 3
Start to talk about the.
00:50:03 Speaker 3
The How you would measure the effectiveness of Brad campaigns, it’s really difficult to do. We’ve been playing around at the moment.
00:50:11 Speaker 2
With a whole.
00:50:12 Speaker 3
Bunch of different studies and those main studies are kind of twofold. The 1st is studies that sort of look.
00:50:19 Speaker 3
To do control.
00:50:20 Speaker 3
Expose tests around your brand media so that you can serve your brand media out to a bunch of different.
00:50:27 Speaker 3
Answers and then you can ask them questions after the fact. You can do a bit of a survey and those surveys are aimed at pulling out different metrics to show that there’s been things like brand awareness lifts, product consideration lifts, creative recall lifts, all of those sorts of.
00:50:41 Speaker 3
Things and that’s.
00:50:42 Speaker 3
That’s one way. One way to really look at the effect of your branding activity.
00:50:48 Speaker 3
But it doesn’t say anything about what that’s doing in terms of driving sales. So we need to.
00:50:52 Speaker 3
Take it a little.
00:50:52 Speaker 1
Are they even interested?
00:50:53 Speaker 3
Bit further, yeah.
Exactly. Exactly it it’ll.
00:50:55 Speaker 1
We can all watch a cat video doesn’t mean we’re buying a cat.
00:50:55 Speaker 3
Give you advice that.
00:50:58 Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah, totally. It’ll give you a nice insight.
00:51:01 Speaker 3
For sure, but does it have an impact on your bottom line as a brand? Who knows. So. So that’s why we.
00:51:06 Speaker 3
Need to go a.
00:51:06 Speaker 3
Little bit deeper, so some of.
00:51:08 Speaker 3
The stuff that we’ve.
00:51:09 Speaker 3
Been doing lately is.
00:51:11 Speaker 3
Running brand campaigns and then using different pieces of tagging so that we can assess if we’re generating any kind of off lift on what brands are doing in house around.
00:51:18 Speaker 3
Church and social and we’ve seen that we.
00:51:21 Speaker 3
Can drive increased?
00:51:22 Speaker 3
Pension rates by up to about 3000%, which is really, really, really significant. Yeah. So those just to quickly unpack that a little bit, those two paths of conversion would be as a consumer searching online for the sheet society and then buying a product would be one part. The other path would be being served a brand ad, then searching online for sheets.
00:51:42 Speaker 3
Society and then buying their product and it’s that second part where we’ve been able to see really incremental value and and a huge amount of uplift. And to answer the honest questions, those would be the sort of two things I would look at.
00:51:54 Speaker 3
To assess the.
00:51:55 Speaker 3
Impact of brand.
00:51:56 Speaker 3
It’s difficult to do, but we’re starting to get to a.
00:51:58 Speaker 3
Point as an industry where where we’re it’s getting more.
00:52:02 Speaker 1
Cool. OK.
00:52:02 Speaker 2
Yeah, and and yeah, and I was going to show the same first, I think what what Sam brings I think is an experience with a lot of brands and the the best way I think to do it. And I think we’re we’re at maturity and a a level where you’ve got, you know gonna say a.
00:52:15 Speaker 2
Huge budget, but you need.
00:52:17 Speaker 2
You need some.
00:52:18 Speaker 2
Budget to get to that point, I think if.
00:52:20 Speaker 2
You want to be more tactical and probably this is where.
00:52:22 Speaker 2
Space we’re playing in in recent years is, you know, when scaling your campaigns, yes, you’re finding it’s new audiences. And so that recognition that that.
00:52:31 Speaker 2
It’s an audience that is different to your current audience, so you need to.
00:52:34 Speaker 2
To be willing to test, you know, to see what credit will stick, you know, to see what that next stage for you, what?
00:52:40 Speaker 2
That looks like.
00:52:42 Speaker 2
And and absolutely there are. Yeah. I think where you can absolutely. I agree in terms of diversifying channel makes is really important and I think.
00:52:52 Speaker 2
Like for us, you know?
00:52:53 Speaker 2
We’ve we’ve been moving into things like.
00:52:54 Speaker 2
Affiliates similar sort of, you know.
00:52:57 Speaker 2
Thinking there in terms.
00:52:59 Speaker 2
Of what Sam was saying, even just we we.
00:53:01 Speaker 2
Go back to.
00:53:01 Speaker 2
The original Christmas questions about working with them to.
00:53:07 Speaker 2
Book slots early and making sure you’re working on their timelines too. You know you might be working with, you know, marketplace similar sort of principles about all about knowing the platform really well and trying to scale into those in the.
00:53:20 Speaker 2
Way that they operate.
00:53:22 Speaker 1
OK, I was going to wrap this up, but I feel like Sam’s question is actually the wrap up question. So Sam’s question is, as you know, competition gets tougher at Christmas especially for e-commerce. What ideas can you share to somehow anticipate this or prepare for it? I think this is a lot of the runway stuff that we were talking about.
00:53:43 Speaker 1
And the key.
00:53:44 Speaker 1
Reasons to start earlier.
00:53:46 Speaker 3
Yeah. So there there are ways to prepare for it. You’re very right in what you said, Selena, that the runway.
00:53:52 Speaker 3
Is the the.
00:53:52 Speaker 3
Key differentiator for brands that are doing things well versus brands that have an opportunity to do things better. So making sure that you’re leveraging that runway period so that you’re as optimized as possible going into those peak periods where competition is higher and you’re looking away.
00:54:08 Speaker 3
Valuable media space so that you don’t have to deal with rising costs is is something that you have to.
00:54:12 Speaker 3
Definitely plan for.
00:54:15 Speaker 3
It’s an interesting point talking about competition around Christmas as well, because there’s some kind of cool little tactics that you can use to do a.
00:54:20 Speaker 3
Lot of.
00:54:21 Speaker 3
Competitive conquesting. And so you can you can use different pieces of technology that will scan the keywords of web pages. Look for your competitions brand name on those pages and then you can use that to to serve an ad and you can competitively conquest that way. So that’s something that I would love to do.
00:54:36 Speaker 3
From a competition perspective and that’s available for nearly all media channels, so that’s that’s a, that’s a nice way to to, to kind of pull some of your competitors potential customers into.
00:54:48 Speaker 3
Sales funnels as well, but yeah, so there’s definitely a lot of different tactics you can think about. And the runway is probably the the best way to approach competition leading into Christmas.
00:54:57 Speaker 1
Yeah. Spin. Kay, did you want to add anything to?
00:55:00 Speaker 1
That yeah, I.
00:55:01 Speaker 2
Mean look from.
00:55:02 Speaker 2
A really tactical point of view.
00:55:03 Speaker 2
From a from.
00:55:03 Speaker 2
A brand I guess you know being really aware.
00:55:06 Speaker 2
Of your I mean.
00:55:08 Speaker 2
You just need. You need to be.
00:55:09 Speaker 2
Aware of your competitors and what they’re doing, how?
00:55:11 Speaker 2
Are they reaching customers? There’s.
00:55:12 Speaker 2
Probably a brand that’s bigger than.
00:55:14 Speaker 2
Yours I mean.
00:55:14 Speaker 2
Unless you’re the marketplace dominant dominant player in the market.
00:55:18 Speaker 2
Probably a brand that’s bigger.
00:55:19 Speaker 2
Than you what?
00:55:19 Speaker 2
Are they doing to reach customers that you’re not doing? How are they using the platforms that you’re using in ways that maybe are better than the?
00:55:26 Speaker 2
Way that you’re using it.
00:55:27 Speaker 2
And try and out maneuver them if you’re a smaller brand, that’s the whole point is that you can be more agile so you know.
00:55:34 Speaker 2
We’re always we always share examples of ads and campaigns that other competitors are running. What can we do to undercut them or have a better message? And so when you’re looking at Christmas specifically?
00:55:49 Speaker 2
Hopefully you have got.
00:55:51 Speaker 2
Files or information on.
00:55:52 Speaker 2
What they did last year, or what you did last year?
00:55:53 Speaker 2
And how that compared?
00:55:55 Speaker 2
And I think that that’s.
00:55:57 Speaker 2
That’s probably a good way to.
00:55:59 Speaker 2
Prepare in your.
00:56:00 Speaker 3
Yeah, that’s my that would probably.
00:56:01 Speaker 2
Be my top tip in terms.
00:56:02 Speaker 2
Of preparing for it. It’s just being really.
00:56:06 Speaker 2
Agile with your, with your own industry.
00:56:08 Speaker 1
I’ll say the things I took away from your conversation one was really allocating that budget the 6040 brand awareness performance and then also the.
00:56:17 Speaker 1
Kind of 3030 thirty in terms of one way peak and pose for me that is about preparing it’s it’s going in thinking this is where I’m going to spend my money and then building out the KPI’s that I expect around those.
00:56:30 Speaker 1
Budget because I came in this conversation thinking something very, very different. So thank you very much. But also that am I the only person I can’t be the only person whose friends send them screenshots of why am I seeing this this ad? So I’ve like taught everybody to click.
00:56:46 Speaker 1
The three buttons.
00:56:47 Speaker 1
And then send me screenshots so that I can see.
00:56:51 Speaker 1
Because I’m only one person, right? Like I get targeted very differently to my friends.
00:56:55 Speaker 1
And so I.
00:56:56 Speaker 1
Get these screenshots so so it is.
00:56:58 Speaker 1
Something as simple and grassroots as that can give you the insight because you can all go to ads library and see what ads people are running. Or you can check out the Google shopping and whatnot, but to see how your friends are targeted. To me it’s always an eye opener because I’m like, oh, I never.
00:57:15 Speaker 1
Even thought about that.
00:57:17 Speaker 3
That that analogy, to me is the loudest person in the room or the loudest brand in the room isn’t always the.
00:57:22 Speaker 3
Smartest brand in the room. What?
00:57:24 Speaker 3
I would say there is. They’ve lasted ads out to a lot of people and it’s not been very relevant for someone. So they’ve effectively just wasted.
00:57:29 Speaker 3
Some money on serving your friend that ad.
00:57:32 Speaker 3
And be a little bit smarter with your ad spend. Use the data you got available too so that you’re not wasting money along anywhere along that path, and then you’ll be able to maximize your return as best boss.
00:57:42 Speaker 2
And that’s a really good point. And I think you know we’re in the business.
00:57:45 Speaker 2
Of not just.
00:57:45 Speaker 2
Making revenue but being comfortable whilst doing.
00:57:47 Speaker 2
That as well. And so, you know, being really smart about your media choices. It’s. Yeah, there’s.
00:57:52 Speaker 2
A revenue number here, of course, but.
00:57:54 Speaker 2
Let’s maintain those margins.
00:57:56 Speaker 1
Yeah. All right. Next question, can you get the same reach and quality digitally compared to what you can get through billboards?
00:58:06 Speaker 1
I feel like I have an answer to this.
00:58:06 Speaker 3
Very good, great, great question.
00:58:10 Speaker 1
Who would like to jump in first? Can I just say what I think?
00:58:13 Speaker 1
Is that my first?
00:58:14 Speaker 1
Thought on that is, but a billboard is like marketing to such a tiny niche. Like only so many people are ever going to see that billboard.
00:58:26 Speaker 1
I want more bang for my buck.
00:58:28 Speaker 1
Like, like billboards, aren’t generally in the most niche of places.
00:58:35 Speaker 3
It’s an interesting mindset. I’d probably go a little bit the other way to.
00:58:38 Speaker 3
Be fair. So yeah, I.
00:58:38 Speaker 1
Ohh OK.
00:58:39 Speaker 3
Think that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Finally a.
00:58:41 Speaker 3
Bit of controversy on the panel.
00:58:41 Speaker 1
Yes, yes. Don’t always agree.
00:58:45 Speaker 3
We’re we’re actually at.
00:58:46 Speaker 3
We’re at a point.
00:58:47 Speaker 3
In in the digital world, and it’s probably been the biggest evolution and the biggest innovation over the last sort of 12 to 18 months, that a lot of the billboards around the city have gone through a period.
00:58:56 Speaker 3
Of digitization so that it used.
00:58:58 Speaker 3
To be that you’d go.
00:58:59 Speaker 3
Up and you’d lock up your poster. That poster would be.
00:59:01 Speaker 3
Up there for X.
00:59:02 Speaker 3
Amount of time and you’d capture every single.
00:59:04 Speaker 3
Person that walks past her every single car that that drives past the bus.
00:59:09 Speaker 3
And we’re now.
00:59:10 Speaker 3
Living in the digital world, I think it’s something like 90% of the screens around Australia.
00:59:15 Speaker 3
Now or digital and.
00:59:17 Speaker 3
That gives us another data touch point that we can use. We can, we can use that really, really effectively to be smart with marketing. So to to answer this question here and.
00:59:26 Speaker 3
It might not get you the reach.
00:59:28 Speaker 3
But I think one of the one of the seeds of this conversation is that REACH is not necessarily the best thing when you’re a brand that doesn’t have infinite dollars, you want to be.
00:59:35 Speaker 3
Smart the way that.
00:59:35 Speaker 3
You’re doing things.
00:59:37 Speaker 3
And so now that we’ve got these.
00:59:39 Speaker 3
Billboards that are.
00:59:40 Speaker 3
The tool.
00:59:41 Speaker 3
We can do some really funky things with targeting. We can map peoples mobile phone patterns and movement patterns and try and find screens that over index for groups of people. A nice example of that is if you’re a you wanna target a health conscious audience. For example, we could look at all of the mobile devices that we see at a gym over X amount of time and then follow their movement.
01:00:02 Speaker 3
Patterns around and that will give us an idea of what screens around the city will over index and be the ones that are most most valuable for us to talk.
01:00:08 Speaker 3
Yeah. So that’s a really cool.
01:00:10 Speaker 3
Thing that we can do with.
01:00:10 Speaker 3
Audience targeting. Very creepy.
01:00:12 Speaker 1
But you you have hacked the system with that question because the question was not digital billboards. And so we’re arguing. But I’m like you, if I can, if I have some data, if I can justify that my target market is coming into some sort of touch point with that, that’s a different story.
01:00:12 Speaker 3
It’s really cool.
01:00:32 Speaker 1
I took this to be it’s a billboard on the side of the highway or it’s a billboard on top of a building.
01:00:38 Speaker 1
And you may not even pay any attention to it, but I yeah, I feel like you can’t hack that question, Sam.
01:00:45 Speaker 3
To hack it, I’ve gotta put my.
01:00:46 Speaker 3
Spin on it.
01:00:50 Speaker 3
But again, OK, if we go back to, if we go back to that point, I again, I’m gonna have to disagree with you. So later I think that they have some of the most high reaching placements that you can have in the market and they’re some of the most impactful.
01:00:59 Speaker 3
It’s just hard to measure success off the back of.
01:01:01 Speaker 3
It because it purely.
01:01:02 Speaker 3
As a reach play in a.
01:01:03 Speaker 3
Lot of cases unless.
01:01:03 Speaker 3
You’re doing things digitally. That’s going to be.
01:01:05 Speaker 1
Part of your 60% brand awareness campaign.
01:01:08 Speaker 3
100% it is, yes.
01:01:10 Speaker 2
And and I think the answer is I think.
01:01:12 Speaker 2
The answer also is.
01:01:13 Speaker 2
That the more this is the diversification of channels argument is that actually by doing both you will improve the return on both of those channels. That’s not all or nothing. It’s not a yeah, it’s not a 0 sum game here. Yeah, the more times your customer sees your brand in more multiple places, you know multiple placements.
01:01:30 Speaker 2
Facebook is not the same as multiple.
01:01:33 Speaker 2
Like on Facebook and on a billboard outside of your, you know, outside on the freeway, there’s a difference in terms of how the consumer foresees that information and.
01:01:40 Speaker 2
And and the.
01:01:41 Speaker 2
Brand work that you’re doing and then.
01:01:43 Speaker 2
This I I think studies have shown the highest selling high ceilings you get from that. So I don’t think it’s like you should be.
01:01:50 Speaker 2
An either.
01:01:51 Speaker 2
Or and I think I.
01:01:52 Speaker 2
Agree that those billboards do have.
01:01:54 Speaker 2
Ken has really great things about.
01:01:57 Speaker 1
While we wait for some more questions, Sam, you have some, you threw out some stuff there around the digital billboards.
01:02:04 Speaker 1
I have no.
01:02:04 Speaker 1
Experience with these in terms of measuring effectiveness and cost in in this digital society now is it much more affordable cause one of the things we’ve talked about over and over again is the like little to no barrier to entry for things like search and social.
01:02:22 Speaker 1
Is there a decent barrier to entry to something like a digital?
01:02:25 Speaker 1
Billboard with that.
01:02:27 Speaker 1
With all that data where I can choose we we’re overlaying the health contracts like all these sorts.
01:02:32 Speaker 1
Of things. Is there a?
01:02:33 Speaker 1
Low barrier to entry to that? Or is it still something that your your bigger brands are looking at being able to leverage?
01:02:41 Speaker 3
Really low barrier to entry. Now I think that’s one of the main pieces of value that come out of the fact that it’s gone through that period of digitization over.
01:02:48 Speaker 3
The last 12 to 18 months.
01:02:50 Speaker 3
And again similar to.
01:02:51 Speaker 3
What I was kind of saying about TV.
01:02:53 Speaker 3
By earlier it.
01:02:54 Speaker 3
Used to be that you wanted to run a nice scale campaign. It would literally cost you millions of dollars. It was very similar with the out of home industry.
01:03:00 Speaker 3
And that’s why.
01:03:01 Speaker 3
You would only see the coca colas and the.
01:03:02 Speaker 3
BMW’s and the.
01:03:05 Speaker 3
Like all of the major brands.
01:03:06 Speaker 3
Out in market in those spaces.
01:03:09 Speaker 3
Now it’s completely changed now. There’s literally no minimum.
01:03:12 Speaker 3
And and you can do a scale campaign across all publishers or all media owners where possible. Or you could be really super contextually relevant and just serve your ads in gyms or doctor’s surgeries, if that’s something that you needed to do. So there that barrier to entry is being completely minimised. One of the things that we’re sort of looking at now and where I think the industry is going to evolve.
01:03:33 Speaker 3
Is how do you measure the impact?
01:03:34 Speaker 3
Some of the things that we’re doing is looking at, again, if we’re seeing any sort.
01:03:38 Speaker 3
Of click through rate.
01:03:39 Speaker 3
Uplift if we’re seeing any conversion uplift on AB?
01:03:43 Speaker 3
On site pre running digital out of home currently running digital out of home and then post and we’re starting to see some cool correlations.
01:03:49 Speaker 3
There. But then there’s also what I was kind of saying before about the movement patterns. There’s this really nice correlation between mobile and out of home. And so that’s where you can use to inform targeting, but you can also then look to see how that.
01:04:03 Speaker 3
Mobile has interacted with the brand.
01:04:05 Speaker 3
Afterwards, or if they’ve downloaded a shopping app or something similar and you can start to directly attribute those two channels and that stuff that really excites me and it’s super early doors when it comes to this channel in.
01:04:15 Speaker 3
The market, but.
01:04:17 Speaker 3
But it, yeah, it’s going to evolve. It’s gonna.
01:04:19 Speaker 1
I like the fact that this is is a great sort of circling back to the conversation you had earlier earlier when you were talking to Sam’s answer, which is really diversifying the platforms and diversifying the audiences. But being doing that in a very smart way in a very technical way in a very niche way. And this is probably a platform.
01:04:40 Speaker 1
That unless you’re one of the bigger brands that your competitors aren’t even thinking about using, so this is, you know, you don’t have to be on TikTok is.
01:04:48 Speaker 1
There somewhere else.
01:04:49 Speaker 1
Where you have the data to back you up to say.
01:04:52 Speaker 1
This is a place now people go.
01:04:54 Speaker 1
So that you can be using those different channels and you can be testing.
01:04:58 Speaker 1
In this lead up to the Christmas period.
01:05:00 Speaker 3
Yeah, exactly. I think one of the things that can kind of scare people off is that it it can come across as being quite complex and that’s one of the barriers that I want to try and break down is that while while there is some challenges to it, while there is some complexity, there’s some really easy ways to get started and there’s some really low barriers to entry, ways to get started, to then start testing and.
01:05:19 Speaker 3
Learning and seeing what works for your brand.
01:05:21 Speaker 3
That’s probably my main message of what I would.
01:05:22 Speaker 1
Yeah. And and.
01:05:23 Speaker 3
Encourage people to do off the back of this.
01:05:25 Speaker 1
Yeah, and. And to be fair, I would have thought it was quite expensive because you’ve got the, the whole billboard conversation or, you know, the old TV media conversation in the back of your head and the, you know, hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars that if you aren’t in the know and that’s why people are listening to this webinar, is to to get in the know, to be able to leverage those.
01:05:45 Speaker 1
Channels and leverage those different strategies that their competitors aren’t using. This is like insider Edge TV.
01:05:53 Speaker 3
I think it’s something that the industry could probably do a little bit better is educating the rest of the market of what some.
01:05:58 Speaker 3
Of these opportunities are.
01:06:00 Speaker 3
Yeah, once, once that word gets out, then I expect that everyone will be leveraging it in some way.
01:06:05 Speaker 1
Yeah. Mean Kane. No more questions just yet. So how would you like to wrap up this conversation for the people who are like?
01:06:14 Speaker 1
Give me three things.
01:06:15 Speaker 1
That you would suggest that people do to maximise their return on investment for their ad strategies in this lead up to Christmas and that.
01:06:24 Speaker 1
Little bit post Christmas.
01:06:27 Speaker 2
Coming on the spot, you have three things so.
01:06:29 Speaker 2
Look, if you’re not planning now, you need to be planning right now and.
01:06:33 Speaker 2
Have your run.
01:06:33 Speaker 2
And get your runway set up. I think runway is really important and and push you know leading yourself into the holiday period rather than just thinking N1 is my my launch date and that’s when.
01:06:42 Speaker 2
Everything happens #1.
01:06:45 Speaker 2
Number two, I think.
01:06:46 Speaker 2
Yeah, you just need to understand.
01:06:47 Speaker 2
Your customer whether it’s.
01:06:48 Speaker 2
Your first party data or your third?
01:06:50 Speaker 2
Party data.
01:06:51 Speaker 2
Have some really.
01:06:52 Speaker 2
Really good models and hypotheses around what your customer wants from this period of time, and I think 3 is, yeah, not forgetting that post sales period. You know, there’s it is a, it is a long sales.
01:07:05 Speaker 2
Period. There are a lot of opportunities for people to buy a lot of motivated people to buy. So leverage that and make the most the.
01:07:14 Speaker 2
Whole the whole time.
01:07:16 Speaker 1
OK. Last minute question for you, Sam. Our programmatic ads ideal for Christmas campaigns and if they are, how do you structure them and how do you measure success that’s like a $3 question.
01:07:30 Speaker 3
Ohh that’s a very loaded question for.
01:07:31 Speaker 1
Those are very loaded question to answer in just.
01:07:32 Speaker 3
For one, for one minute left.
01:07:33 Speaker 1
A couple of minutes but.
01:07:35 Speaker 3
But it is a great question. I think Sam has picked up in that question that as I’ve been using the word digital, I’ve been something.
01:07:41 Speaker 3
At info programmatic pretty much.
01:07:43 Speaker 3
That’s what we do day-to-day. So everything that I’ve been talking about today, Sam, is.
01:07:47 Speaker 3
Is working in the programmatic.
01:07:48 Speaker 3
History. And so yes, I certainly do think it’s ideal and for the pretty much for the reasons that we said before, it’s the easy way to diversify your channel mix without a huge barrier to entry and huge investment. It’s an easy way for you to be intelligent with data and be super targeted in the way that you’re promoting your messages to different audiences. And and it’s a.
01:08:08 Speaker 3
The really impactful way to measure success, so that would be my structure of diversification targeting and measurement.
01:08:15 Speaker 1
Awesome. I think that is the perfect way to end this conversation. Thank you so much guys. I have learned lots and I always I always feel like if I’ve come away with learning lots that the people who have watched this have probably. But you’ve you’ve kicked it out of the park. So thank you so much. Ming Kang Chen from the Sheet Society and Sam Thompson from bench.
01:08:35 Speaker 1
So that’s a wrap. I’d love to hear what insight you’ve gotten from this episode and how you’re going to put it into action.
01:08:44 Speaker 1
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01:08:44 Speaker 1
Social kind of person. Follow me at the Celina Knight and make sure to leave a comment and let me know and.
01:08:52 Speaker 1
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01:08:53 Speaker 1
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01:09:03 Speaker 1
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01:09:23 Speaker 1
I’ll see you in the next episode.



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