DISCOVER HOW TO BUILD THE RETAIL STORE
“The power of digital distribution over physical retail outlets is you have a chance to create a global audience."
One way to get ahead of your competitor, is to get straight into the minds of your customers.
Being inside a customer’s head, with no interruptions and no distractions, that’s what all marketers dream of. When you can do this, you develop a relationship. And it is possible, with a podcast.
- How is podcasting working for a retailer? [17:41]
- How can we take podcasting to become an expert to build your brand? [20:53]
- How do you keep the momentum [27:14]
- A guest style show or an individual show - what is the best option for the retailers [31:42]
- How often you should release a show? [41:21]
- Rob's top three tips for somebody who wants to start a podcast. [45:35]
One way to get ahead of your competitor, is to get straight into the minds of your customers.
Salena: 00:03 Hi there and welcome to this week's episode of the bring business to the retail podcast. As retailers, when we think of Social Media marketing, Face book and Instagram I instantly come to mind. When you think about it a bit ore, you might come up with LinkedIn, Twitter, Snap chat, they all rank highly. But living in a digital world often hard to build the connection with your customers that you know will move them through the customer journey. And let's be honest an independent retailer we love to build connections with our customers. But have you ever thought of hosting a podcast. It's not something we've talked about on the show here before. So today we've got Rob Greenlee head of partnerships at Spreaky.com and blog talk radio. He's gonna show us exactly how as a
retailer you can use podcasting to grow your business and connect with your customers. So welcome to the show Rob.
00:57 Rob: It's great to be here Salena, thank you for the invite on your traffic broadcast.
Salena: No problem, you have been in this industry for quite sometime time haven't you?
Rob: Yes, for longer than I want to admit sometimes. It's been about fourteen years, yeah.
Salena: It's hard to believe podcast has even been around for that long. I know I started my podcast back in 2015 and even then it still seemed new and fresh. But you are talking fourteen years, that's a long time. How have you seen the industry changed in that time?
Rob: Well, it really started out as a medium that was really trying to break the mold of what people were perceiving was spoken audio at the time which was broadcast radio. And the models that were being done around spoken word content back then were mainly thought of as a form of broadcast radio which was becoming less and less appealing to our younger generation, so which was continuing today. But what podcasting really is, is like a form of pirate radio. It's where radio started many, many decades ago. It's been true and authentic getting on the microphone and talking about things that are part of people's real lives and playing music and then talking about a motion and storytelling. Which is where podcasting is today. I mean podcasting is an authenticity based medium which is really involved today. I think social media like you were saying just a second ago was a big hot thing over the last ten years. Podcasting started about the same time or a little before I think a lot of the social media started. But it took a lot of the attention away from the growth of podcasting. And podcasting has been kind of growing in the background for many years since 2004. And so now social media is a little less what I would say kind of cool now. It's more mainstream. It's a little bit less authentic now. There is a lot of kind of fake stuff that is going on in social media.
03:13 Salena: It's so contrived social media. Isn't it that everyone has to have everything perfect. And that's what I love about podcasting. Yes, there is polish podcast but I really love the genuine ones because it does take away from that perfect social media channel that everybody seems to be striving to achieve.
Rob: And I think that's the big reason why we are seeing podcast kind of getting new life here over a last couple of years. And really start to grow though it has been steadily growing for the whole fourteen years. It's just not been growing really fast and it's growing a little bit faster now but it's not like a hockey stick growth. So it's time has come is really what it comes down to. Social media is not as safe a place for brands and for people as it used to be. And so podcasting is now I think become the cool place. Because just like you said you can be authentic. It's an authentic meeting that's got a little bit of a safe distance from the trolls that are out there or the fake stuff that is going on out there in the social media world. So people are feeling a little safer over here and people are exploring and expanding around ideas around new types of content, storytelling. And going back to the routes of where radio originally started. And it's building and growing.
04:31 Salena: You were talking earlier about Pirate radio and this just goes to show how old I am, and I do admit a couple of weeks ago that I just turned 42. You said pirate radio I think Christians Slater and pump up the volume.
Rob: That's a good analogy, yeah for quite a lot of big retail bra
Salena: As a retailer, you've been in the retail space; you've owned your own business. You've worked in marketing for quite a lot of big retail brands. How do you see podcasting working for a retailer?
Rob: Well I think what it really gets back to is retailers fundamentally are customer driven businesses. And customers typically want to have authentic and real relationships with the stores that they work with. And they want to trust the retailers that they work with. I think especially smaller retailers are more focused on this than the larger ones. Larger ones are worried about their brand. And I think there is a place for podcasting with the larger branded retailers. But then it's more about building brands and less connections with individual customers. And I think the smaller retailers typically will have a focus on their business. They will be focused on a particular type of genre of product that they are selling. And that genre can be translated into various supporting topics. It can be how to use that product as effectively as possible. How to make it work with other things too. So let's say you have a cooking store something like that, that you have. You can create a podcast that's helping people expand their knowledge of how to cook. And how to use different tools in your cooking processes to come up with new ideas. And doing that creates these intimate relationships with individual listeners than then can be turned into customers whether it's online or in the physical world. So I think that's at a really high level. That's where the fit kind of comes in. It's building those real connections with real customers.
06:52 Salena: Oh, I swear when you are talking, my brain is firing off with 400 different ways that, that cooking store could use a podcast to market their business. And the first one that came to mind was just simply answering people's questions. Those questions that come up again and again and having people even calling with their questions and playing that back and being able to answer it. That is a resource in and of itself, not only do you build a connection, but then you can go and do so much with that information once you've got it.
Rob: Yeah, and then that feedback and that communication with your customer kind of fuel the podcast too and gives you topics to talk about and maybe even gives you some insight into what your customers are looking for, for your retail business. So creating that dialogue with customers can help multiple layers of how you function with your business and how you build your reputation in the particular retail industry that you're focused on too.
07:56 Salena: Let's talk about that a little bit more. Reputation- I know a lot of independent retailers feel like they struggle against big buck stores and the big brand. So how can we take podcasting to become an expert to build your brand?
Rob: Well, I think it's; like I said earlier, it's leveraging those connections with customers and making sure that your customers that you have today know about your podcast. And also give them reasons to share it with their friends. And I think at the very grassroots level that's the power of podcasting. Podcasting at its core is a word of mouth medium. It's not a big brand medium. It's not an ABC or a big radio station network like an Ihert radio. That's not what podcasting is all about. Podcasting is about making individual connections and then sharing in being engaged with your audience and making those connections at a smaller level. And so I think that's the real power of this medium. And you are only limited by your creativity.
09:14 Salena: There is a lot of people who are probably thinking, but I don't know how to get started. And we have just talked about the easiest way. The easiest way to get started is just to ask some questions from your customers. For the people who are thinking you know what, I like talking with people. I love being on the sales floor, I love answering questions and I love the interaction I get. I think I could do this. How would they get started?
Rob: Well, I think it's like starting any kind of content. Going down the path whether you are a writer or blogger or radio show host or a podcaster or creating any kind of content you kind of have to come up with a goal. And think about who you are trying to reach with your content and set some really basic goals for yourself. Why are you doing a podcast? What's your focus? Where are you trying to go? and just realize that whatever you come up with, it's not going to be where you're gonna be two months from now. It's going to evolve, it's going to change. But you have to start somewhere but just come up with whatever idea that you have today and start moving forward and really focus on connecting with your listeners. And trying to build those listeners relationships in a way that they will share with others.
And I think getting started was just a very clear focus. It's okay to start out very simple and without high expectations. Because at the beginning most podcasters don't have anybody listening anyway. So what you are going to do is building your audience as you get better as a podcaster. And it's going to happen over a longer period of time. Just because you put a piece content out there doesn't mean are automatically going to gravitate to listen to it. It's going to take some marketing, it's gonna take some time. It's gonna take some sharing and some co-marketing with your retail store to let people know about it. It's the same thing and in using important keywords in your podcast that will be finable in places like Google and in these voice search tools now that we are seeing with Amazon echo and these kinds of things. Those are becoming more and more important to podcasters because those are voice search. And that's the kind of natural language, natural kind of direction that our communications with our computing devices are moving towards. So keywords are very important concepts or very important in making sure that those were visible on your website, on your podcasting page, in your podcast itself. In all the metadata areas like the title of your show and those kinds of things are very important to make sure that you are clearly communicating and simply communicating. What's the show is about, what the focus is and why it's a value for someone to listen to.
12:17 Salena: I think the having a plan part is so important because my plan when I first started my podcast was simply to talk to people. I had no plan, and I have to admit, two years in and 250 episodes or however we've got. There are a lot of episodes out there. It is only this year that I sort of realized that this is a fantastic marketing tool. And not to say I haven't used it to now. But in 2018 we are really focusing on streamlining and using that content and going back and looking at who we've had on as guest on the show and what are the things that people have interacted with. And you actually get insights from this information if you actually take the time to look. But I have to admit I kind of just fumbled along for some time with no plan other than I really like to talk to people. I could use it as a bit of a lay generation tool but mostly it was just to answer the questions that people were asking me. And I thought this was the most effective medium for me because I'm a talker I love to talk. And I get emails from people even from my slightly haphazard until now strategy. I get emails from people that they bring me to tears. I had one just last week which was I had just been binging on your podcast. I don't even know how I found it but already my brain has been exploding with ideas. And I realized that my business can be much bigger if I actually start to pay some attention to it. These emails are just so heartwarming to know that you've put the content out there, and that's what I want to do. I want to help people change their lives, to have freedom to have more money. And when you get that recognition it is just so exciting. And you know it's all worth it. And my next question for you is going to be, how do you keep the momentum? Because I know for me there are times when I've just kind of thought, haa, I just really can't be bothered. And you know what inevitably I get an email that week from somebody who has listened to the podcast and has had some life-changing moment. SO I feel like the universe is saying, no Salena, this is the way that you communicate really, really well. So how do you keep momentum? You do two shows a week.
14:36 Rob: Yeah I mean, it really gets back to talking about something you have a passion for. And if you have a passion for something it's not as much work. And that's the key. I really think that whatever you are talking about, and I think at times as a podcaster you have to be a little selfish. I know that there is a tendency to think that you should be doing this podcast for you listeners and you should always be thinking about your listeners. Well, I think that they have a role to play. But fundamentally if you are going to be thinking about podcasting and you're going to build that audience and build that connection, you need to be a little selfish in your podcast too. You need to think about what you want to do, what will sustain you to do this. You can't do this podcast for someone else. You have to do it for yourself because if you don't you are not going to go through all the bumpy phases that you're gonna come across. Your confidence is getting crushed because your show is not growing fast enough or you had a show recording that you lost. Or you had a guest that didn't show up for their recording time or something like that. There is gonna be low spots that you are going to come into whenever you do this. And you'd have to have that momentum behind you to push yourself through it and to get through it. And a lot of people do what is called pod fading where they'll start a show, they'll have a lot of enthusiasm at the beginning but they didn't really think about how they were going to sustain the content side of this thing. Because they didn't think about where the content was going to come from. Because sometimes you can run out of things to talk about. But if you haven't thought about how you are going to sustain that topic for week after week after week. And one terrific way of doing is just like what you said earlier, is making those connections with audience members. And they contribute to your show and they inspire you to keep pushing the envelope and giving you ideas. And so that should be part of your plan. And I said earlier about setting goals. I sometimes say that and I think I give the wrong impression. Goals don't have to be like you have to sit down and you write a business plan or something like that. Goals can be just like what you said. They can be just a conscious decision that I'm going to do this. And that could be as defined as it has to be. Because over time you are going to overall it and change it and improve it. And so it's just a place to start.
17:04 Salena: That pod fading thing is so relevant to me. At the end of last year, I was two years, 250 episodes. I did think maybe it's time to just let this go. It takes a lot of energy. It takes a lot of practice and it also takes a lot of planning to make sure that you get the most out it. I had thought to myself, I had put all of this energy in, I've got all this content, maybe we just stop and use what we already have. But something happened, my team just started to work through and I became a lot more focused on what I wanted in 2018. And we started mapping out things for each month and you just spoke about that. For example, this month in January when we were recording this, we are talking about planning and preparation because it's the New Year. In February we are talking about a commerce, March we are talking social media and that has made life so much easier. Because now we know who we want to focus to get on the show whereas before we were randomly reaching out to people and hoping they'd get on. And exactly what you said, I had one day that four people didn't turn up for their recordings. And that's a month's worth of content for me that I had to go and find. And having this calendar, as a result, has just made everything so much easier. So if you are thinking about a podcast I would strongly suggest having overarching themes for the month and working towards that. Because then like you were saying, the questions that you might want to answer. You only think of four if you are doing a weekly podcast or two if you are doing a fortnightly podcast. And all of a sudden the burden just seems to lift. It's like oh wow, we have a plan in place. It's not that hard. And that brings me to my next question for you which is, a guest style show or an individual show. Which one is your preferred option?
19:04 Rob: I think it really depends on you as a personality and what you like to do. Some people want to get a co-host because they are not as confident in what they are they are doing with the podcasting.
They want to have a little bit a break in their show to have someone talk for a while and to maybe share ideas. So I think it can be very strategic in how you view yourself and your abilities as a podcaster to get started. Sometimes it is good to start off with a co-host. Other people they are just extremely talented talkers and they can tell stories and they are very smooth and they can hold an audience. I think you have to just kind of evaluate that. My tendency is I have always had a co-host or multiple co-hosts. Because I just feel more comfortable when I have someone else to talk to. So it's a personal choice. I know some people that have built huge podcast and all they do is, they just pulled the microphone and they just talk for an hour. But not everybody can pull that off. You kind of have to look at yourself and see what's the best fit for you.
20:17 Salena: And I guess what your customers are looking for. The people who are going to listen to you. Let's go back to that home ware store that are selling the cooking products. If you are talking about to use a product, maybe that is just you for five minutes. But if you wanted to talk about a recipe that you used like a kitchen aid for, you might want to bring somebody else to kind of ...20:41 because talking about cooking isn't always exciting.
20:46 Rob: That's true because cooking tends to be a fairly visual experience. SO you have to be able to paint that visual picture with your words and to keep it interesting. I know I've listened to some food podcasts, they are just crazy. It would be like two guys talking about the experience of making and eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I mean it's just like it could be captivating if it's done well. So it's a skill which you develop over time. But I definitely agree with what you were saying that the spectrum here is much broader of what you can do based on what the content is.
21:27 Salena: I love to have guests, I love to have a co-host, a guest because 1 it does make my life a lot easier. Because you have a 45 minutes show, you might only have to talk for ten or fifteen minutes because the other person is the expert. The other person is sharing their knowledge. And I have no experience in the non-business podcast content creation field. SO those guys talking about the peanut and jelly sandwich, that is an...21:56 in itself.
Rob: OH it is and what was fascinating about it is that they would talk about every little much detail and that they would go into the why's and the how's and the experience and the crunch. These peanut butter sandwiches were grilled. And so you had to have a certain kind of grill and a certain pattern on the bread. So that's the kind of content that connects with people. People love stories and in your podcast, no matter what the podcast is you have to be able to tell some level of story because that's what connects with listeners. And it needs to have some amount of fun. It needs to have some value that is beyond just the nuts and bolts of something. It needs to have some magical total value. It needs to have some fun element to it that also connects with people and creates a motion. So what you want really fundamentally to do, and this has kind of been a little stray secret for radio for many years is to create your audience. Give them some emotional roller coaster ride. And that's what you need to do in your podcast to keep it interesting.
23:10 Salena: Are you talking about like the three acts of the story. Am I doing this completely wrong? I should be building up the momentum and then bringing it back down again.
Rob: Yes, that's right and then bringing it up back again, and then crashing them hard.
Salena: 250 episodes and I still didn't know that one. I just; and this is why I don't have questions. It's funny because I'm going to tell you a little story right now which is when I had my retail stores, I had children stores. And we used to get somebody in to do story time for the kids. And I was paying somebody to come and story time. And the lady said to me at one point, why the heck aren't you doing this? I'm reading to two-year-olds, it's really not an art form. And I just said to her, not, I am not a storytelling kind of person. And she said, again, this is two years old, there is no storytelling kind of person. You just have to open the book and read the pages. I'll take your money but think about the fact that you are paying me to come and do this. And it just sat with me for quite some time. And I'm quite a confident person. I do like to talk and I always like to talk and it made me wonder why I wasn't able to sit in front of half a dozen two-year-olds and read a story. And with that, I decided to go to Toastmasters to find out why I had this issue. And I think it was just the confidence in speaking with a story rather than speaking for the sake of speaking if that makes sense. And what I discovered I was really good at was thinking on my feet. And in Toastmasters, they have a thing called table topics where someone just throws a question at you and you have 60 seconds to reply. And I discovered that I was really, really good at this sometimes making crap up. Because sometimes they are really far-fetched. But I was really good at thinking on my feet and that's where podcasting all of a sudden became the thing I wanted to do. Because I started out with the questions like Jeremy Dumason and all the big players they have their ten questions that they religiously go through. And I found that so formulaic. Sometimes you say something and I want to learn more about it. I don't want to stop you and then go to my question and as a result, I have discovered that that is something I'm good at. I might not be the best storyteller. But what I'm good at is leading people to tell the story. So that's how I see my role on the podcast. And I do find that the podcast where I have guest I feel like the listeners get more out of it. Because I'm able to pull the story out. But I also think if I have a question, there is a good chance that the person who is listening has a question. And instead of being frustrated like aah, I didn't want you to move to your next standard question. I want to hear about that. We have the freedom to do that on this show. So when you put your show together, I am trying to find the reason for telling this story. But when you put your show together, think about that connection that you want to make. And is it to engage people? Is it to have them know. A lot of podcasts are quite deep and heavy. They talk about social or political things. So think about what you are good at how you can structure the show in order to find the best show for you. I kind of went off on a tangent there.
26:30 Rob: That's okay, no it's all good. I mean I agree 100%. I think that your perspective is fairly common out there with people's view on how they view a podcast. I tend to do much better when I'm kind of off the script as they say. The two shows that I do and this is an interesting contrast. One of the shows I do there is no planning at all. I just pull up my microphone, turn on my webcam and we go for an hour and a half. There is no pre-planning. My speaker live show that I do that one has an outline to it and I follow the outline. I write in their things that I want to make sure that I covered. It's more of a ...27:17 show where the other show is more of an opinion show. And I feel like I can't have a pre-written opinion. That's going to come across as authentic. So both my co-hosts and I we just threw if off the cuff. We just talk about what is happening in the podcasting space every week on Saturday mornings for an hour. It's a video show as well as it is live. So what goes in the microphone stays in the recording. So you better be careful what you say.
Salena: The only thing is we ever edit out, you know a child coming in to ask for a drink or the garbage truck turned up if we can edit those things out. But essentially what you hear is what you get because I feel like that's where the authenticity is. People want to know that people are real. The person on the other end of the microphone no matter how famous they are or how popular they are, they have a story to tell. And when it's not polished it does feel more real more role and more able to just accept the fact that people are just people. Everybody is just people.
28:32 Rob: Yeah, that's exactly true.
Salena: So you do two shows every single week. Have you found the sweet spot for how often you should release a show?
Rob: I think that the data shows that weekly is best. And the data also shows that the best time to release an episode is between late Monday and Wednesday. The reason for that is often times people will start their week, they come off of a long weekend. People don't listen to podcast that much over the weekend. So what's interesting about that is in the past back when podcast started, most of the consumption of podcasting was happening at home. So people were listening to things at home more than they do today. People don't listen to podcast as much in the home as they did in the past. So it's an interesting trend shift. I think podcast assumption has moved more towards the commute and when people are in their cars when they are out doing things. They are at the gym or they are out for a run or they are mowing the lawn. If they can hear the audio over the top of the sound of the gas motor. But people are out doing things. They are out walking the dog, they are doing things like that. So people are out the house mainly when they are consuming podcast these days. And also another important thing to keep in mind too when you are producing the shows, it's best to make sure that your podcast has good audio volume as well. Because people are often times listening to it on the bus and on the airplane and there is a lot of ambient noise around them at all times. So having a good boost of volume is also key to the success of your podcast. Because you definitely want to be heard.
30:39 Salena: And I guess really knowing who is going to be listening or who is listening is very important because that will affect the time that you spend. We generally record our shows for between 25 and 45 minutes. And then occasionally I'll do like a ten-minute episode as an extra that I do as a video and we pop it up on the podcast. And it's funny because the ten-minute one often gets listened to a lot more than the 40 minutes ones. Because people listening to my show say they are the ones I listen to when I'm driving and picking up the kids from school. While I'm driving and waiting I've got ten minutes so I'll listen to those. Whereas the people who or running or walking the dog they like the longer ones because generally between 30 and 60 minutes is how long somebody is going to exercise for. So knowing who is going to be listening to your show and what kind of space they are going to be in when they are listening is super important. I don't think you have to do a half an hour show just because everybody else has a half an hour show.
31:38 Rob: Yeah, no I think you should do the show that is most appropriate for the content. I would think that duration is based on what the content is. And that's the most important thing. Though I will say that the data shows that the most popular duration of a podcast is between about 30 minutes and 50 minutes. And one of the reasons for that is that the average commute time here in the US is about 25 minutes each way.
Salena: Yeah, that makes sense.
Rob: So people will start listening to a podcast on the way to work and they'll finish it on their way home. So…but you could also make the case that doing a 25-minute show is the sweet spot too right.
32:27 Salena: Yes, depends on who is listening and it depends on what it is you need to share.
Salena: it's been wonderful talking to you. I've never had another podcast person on the show. I've had people who have their own podcast. But not somebody who has had that in-depth knowledge as you and has been in the industry as long as you. So it has been really nice just having a chat really. Tell us your top three tips for somebody who wants to start a podcast.
Rob: Well, I think as I said earlier come up with just a general outline of a goal and then kind of flush it out. And make sure that it is something that is a topic that you can sustain over the long-term. I think the big things, find sources of information, you being an expert in whatever topic that you are covering is pretty important. But it's not a requirement but you have to have the commitment to become an expert. Because you are doing a podcast about that topic will eventually turn you into an expert and you will be seen as that. SO it's okay to start off with something new too but you gonna need to really dive in and dig in and learn as fast as possible. Because you are going to have guest on and they are going to challenge you and your knowledge and you are going to know what questions to ask. or have enough knowledge to engage them. And also have a certain amount of stories that you can tell that is relatable to your audience in that topic area. So I think that's the most important. And then finding a terrific podcast host and when I say host, not host behind the microphone but a host for your media files. Because you don't really want to host your podcast on the same web server that you have your website just because of bandwidth usage. So when you publish an episode it can saturate your bandwidth connection for your website. So you could be compromising your traffic to your website by publishing a podcast on the same server. So using like hosting platform is pretty important. And those platforms that are out there, and there are many of them and company that's a hosting platform as well. But there are many of them out there that you seem to choose which one is most appropriate for you. Is to have the tools that will enable you to syndicate your show, produce your show, publish your show in a reliable platform that has good data connections with like iTunes and stitcher and all these listening platforms that are out there to build your distribution. So I would say those are the top most important things that you need to think about. The actual order recording side is pretty inexpensive these days to get started. You really just need a USB microphone, and the one that I like to recommend is the Audio Technica ATR2100 is a great starter microphone. So if you just want to get started, it's about 75 bucks on the Amazon. So if you go ATR2100, that's a great place or a great microphone to start with because it supports what you call XLR and USB. So if you want to add a mixer to your recording situation, you just get a different cable and you can use the same microphones. So it gives you that flexibility. So those are my top tips.
36:06 Salena: So having a goal, having a little plan on what you are going to talk about so it can be sustainable, making sure you have good audio and making sure you don't host it on your website. Because especially if you got and a comer website you can't afford to be losing customers because your podcast takes off.
Rob: Yeah exactly, it gets too popular. So if your show becomes popular you are gonna use up all your bandwidth that you would have available to your website.
Salena: Yes, and those hosting platforms also have a lot of insights and tracking that you can use to measure and see where people are coming from. And it is a great tool just like your Google analytics or your Facebook analytics, those platforms do have analytics as well. SO you can use that content more wisely.
I have one last question for you. First one is what kind of microphone do you use? Let's get a little bit techy and nerdy.
37:03 Rob: Well, I own two ATR2100's. SO I'm an active user of them as well. And I also use Assure that's an SM7B microphone. It's radio caliber professional mike, that's what I'm using right now. So ASSURE SM7B, they are about $370 apiece. SO they are very expensive.
Salena: Nice, nice, my last question is, are you an in-store shopper or an online shopper?
Rob: Both, I do both. Actually, I probably shop in-store more or more than I do online honestly.
Salena: What's your favourite store:
Rob: Probably Fries in Seattle. It's electronic, it's a gadget store. It's a geeky electronic store.
Salena: Why do you love it?
Rob: Because I'm a geek, I like techy geek things. I used to work for a small company called Microsoft so I got sucked into the technology world. So I have lots of gadgets and electronic devices and things like that. So I have worked on software for many, many years so it sucked me into the electronic device world in a big way. I used to work for Windows phone too. So I used to work on a mobile phone platform as well. So as you can imagine that does tend to turn you into becoming a geek.
38:36 Salena: Not a problem, and I'm sure the people in these stores are as passionate and enthusiastic about electronics as you are. So do you get that connection with them?
Rob: Yes, exactly. I have an affinity with those employees when I walk in the door. Yes.
Salena: Thanks so much for all of your information, your fourteen years of podcasting and retail wisdom.
Subscribe to our mailing list and get latest updates, episodes, and news.