DISCOVER HOW TO BUILD THE RETAIL STORE
“People don’t buy what you do, they buy why you do it"
What made Kathryn choose Pinterest as the platform that she is going to concentrate on as compared to something and Instagram? [11:01]
Where would I go to maximize my advertising on Pinterest? [22:10]
Is the rich pins very hard to install? Is that a plugin or what happens then? [29:17]
But does Kathryn recommend Pinterest ads for retailers? Does it work for Katherine? [31:57]
But how does that work for my profile if something I pinned from somebody else is on my board? Do I get the credit for it? Just because you know I've got great curation skills?
00:02 Salena: Hey there and welcome to this week's episode of the bringing business to retail podcast.
Salena: Today's guest Kathryn Moorhouse is dedicated to helping entrepreneurs grow their business using Pinterest and she is one of the leading experts on Pinterest marketing. Kathryn has become the go-to expert for helping high performing entrepreneurs grow their audience and income using Pinterest. Clearly, I'm so excited, I can't even speak properly. Best of all, what I'm really, really loving is Kathryn has also got her own retail store. So the best part about today is, she is going to blend in how she has grown her children's clothing brands in Logan and use her Pinterest strategies. I'm sitting here, you can't see but I'm waving my arms around. I wonder if it's coming through in the intro. But she is going to show how she has used Pinterest to grow that clothing brand. So welcome to the show Kathryn.
01:02 Kathryn: Thank you so much for having me. I am so excited to be here today.
Salena: So tell us a little about the retail that you have.
Kathryn: Yes, so I have initially started a baby and kids clothing brand. And I did all the sewing myself. I kind of designed it. I was actually on pay at the time and I was working with kids. And I just obviously saw that the functionality of the clothing did not work out so well. SO I started making aprons and things that they could actually do Art and Craft in. Which eventually turned into some baby clothing item, some kid clothing items that I was inspired by. And that's really how it actually began. And it sort of grew from there ad I have a marketing background. SO I have a degree in marketing and to me, it's always just been part of who I am. And so when I started this business, social media just came very naturally to me. So that's how I transitioned into Pinterest and understand how to use it for my business and then obviously I have been using it also in Logan as a clothing brand, and it just has been phenomenal. So that's sort of how I got into the clothing brand arena.
02:16 Salena: So what made you choose Pinterest as the platform that you are going to concentrate on as compared to something and Instagram?
02:27 Kathryn: So with Facebook and Instagram I find it is a really great tool to connect with your audience and build lasting relationships, grow your like and trust factor and really get to know who they are, what they want and also let them connect with you as a business. So you are able to share those kinds of videos and stories and behind the scenes. And comment and connect and really build those relationships. But I was looking for something where I could put a lot of hard work into my blog post, into my actual product and creating those sale pages. But sometimes I have very little time to go in and do post that only lasted about a day in terms of engagement. And then you would have a couple of comments, you answer those comments. You try and build the connection that way. But I was like I want something that was just going to have that post up longer. It's going to have a longer term benefit for me. And the only focus at that stage was Google search engine optimization. Because you knew that if you have a product you could obviously create the product sales page and your link would show up in Google and you would just have to optimize that page with key words. So you are really kind of leveraging Google at that stage because that was the only thing where the content would stay on there for a really long period of time and get traffic consistently over the years. And then when I came across Pinterest it was on a personal level.03:50
I was really using it to get ideas for the baby clothing. And I was using it to get ideas for my own wardrobe and things like that. And then it dawned on me once I started that actually, all the pins that I was pinning came from business owners. And I started transitioning to a point where I realized I could use it for my business. It wasn't just the big stores that were using Pinterest for their businesses. But I was seeing small mom and pop shops and places that had really great pins leading to handmaid clothing. And I was like this is amazing because I'm seeing great ideas, great content from other small business owners on here which means if I put mine on here. Potentially other people like me could see my pins. So I started looking into it, how to start the business account and how to really set it up for your business. And one thing when I saw this I knew that I wanted to use Pinterest, was that some of these pins that people had up were years old. There were product that were just the continuous products they kept producing. And it was two years old, three years old and these pins were still getting traffic to their site. And I thought that this was absolutely amazing because it doesn't happen on all the social media medium platforms like this.
05:11 No three years is like is like five lifetimes.
Kathryn: I know exactly. I don't think I could even pull a Facebook post from three years ago that is still sending traffic to the site. So when I learned that I was like, yes, I kind of one to do this. Because it just made all that hard work that I put in to those pages and into the product and everything more worth it. I just felt like it had that long term marketing opportunity for me. And so when I started creating the pins for it, I started realizing that I put it up once. I would re-pin it consistently. SO you would want to re-pin it to group ...05:51 places. And years later I'm still getting traffic to my top referrers or my top product on my site. Still from Pinterest to this day. Even though I haven't re-pin it for a while because I have discontinued that, I'm still getting traffic to my website through that pin. And it's just phenomenal
06:09 I love that. We all love free traffic. Especially when that comes from something that you created ages ago. So you touched on the business account. Can you tell us a little bit; for people who maybe have a Pinterest account, maybe they pin things every now and then? Or they go on to; let's be homes. We all go o to Pinterest for like three things. One is for party ideas, two is for home decorating ideas and three is for recipes. I always get amazed that people look at business things. Our podcast episodes on the Pinterest and I'm always amazed that people are looking for business things on Pinterest. Clearly, there is a market. But everybody I know just goes there for party decor and recipes.
Kathryn: I know. That's what it feels like, especially in the beginning you keep thinking, there is no way this is going to be used for my business. And then you see some things on there and you are like, never mind I was wrong.
07:09 Yeah, I will click on it and I have to admit. Probably the algorithm feeds me these things because I'm always clicking on just simple little graphics that say, some sort of cheer. Oh, I have to see what they used Pinterest for and I'm always clicking on them. So the fact that there aren't a lot of people using it for business. Yeah, let's put that in a quote, kind of mean that it's an untapped market. Does it?
Kathryn: Definitely. And it's such a growing platform. Last year they reached two hundred million pinners on Pinterest. I mean that audience size is mixed with businesses and personal accounts. It's sort of everyone. And I've had a real struggle trying to find an industry that isn't on Pinterest. Occasionally I say something like a dentist office is going to struggle. But to be honest, if you are a dentist that actually has a website with a blog, you'll do perfectly on Pinterest. Because everybody is trying to figure out solutions to their problems. So the crazy thing is before when I use it personally, I was always like recipes, DRY, wardrobe. You know all of those ideas and I thought that was it. But then I realized that I was actually searching on there as well for solutions to my problems. So I always say to business owners that Pinterest is really a place for people to get inspiration, to get ideas and to get answers to their questions. And recently Pinterest has updated to become a visual search engine. So if you think of it this way, it's Instagram and Google having a little baby. And that's what I call Pinterest because it has the backend of Google that search engine functionality. But it has the visual aesthetics of Instagram. So you are mixing them into such a fantastic way that your audience can now actually search on Pinterest and your pin will show up in that search result for any of the issues, any of the problems, any of the ideas that they are looking for inspiration. So it's always good to have a combination of that for your website so that you can catch the audience in all those different places.
09:15 Salena: For the pin inspiration?
Kathryn: Exactly, exactly.
Salena: No, I just remembered, did I ask you a question there. I got a little bit sidetracked. But my question was, what is the difference between your average personal account and your business account?
Kathryn: So the personal account is wonderful for someone who is just wanting to use it for personal use. Finding really just inspiration ideas and your own audiences for your personal life. You can also use it for you to search ideas for your own business. But a business account is a whole separate account where you actually have access to analytics. That means that anytime someone clicks through on a pin to your website, you are getting targeted analytics on that. Also analytics on your overall pins that you've added to your profile as a business. Which means you can actually project what content you should create in the coming months. When you go into analytics you are able to actually see what your audience is physically clicking on. That means you know what they are interested in. So there is no more guessing in that sense. You actually have those analytics for you to look at saying this is my top performing pin. This is my second top performing pin and these are other pins that are doing really well from other people that I could now create content related to that because my audience loves it. So it's giving you ideas and it's also giving you your own analytic. So you know what's working and what's not. And you obviously get access to promoted pins which is the Pinterest ad. And that in itself is amazing and we'll chat about that. But being able to promote on Pinterest that is only available on a business account. On the business account, you are also going to get access to things like showcases. So you can on your profile showcase some of your best boards. So your audience can see that when they arrive at your profile.
You are getting access to rich pins. Which means if you are a product based business, your pin, if you have rich pins enabled, you can actually show the pricing of your product automatically on Pinterest. So your pin will show exactly the price of your product. So if I have a baby clothing item like a beanie for example. And I have created the pin and added to Pinterest. Pinterest says it will automatically collect a whole bunch of data from your website such as the price, the description. All of that and it will attach it to this pin. So when someone actually clicks on this pin, not only do they see your amazing product, but they'll actually see the price. And when you put that product on sale on your website it will automatically say it's on sale on your pin.
11:49 Salena: Wow, that's pretty impressive.
Kathryn: Yeah, so all of this is available obviously in the business account which is why I would suggest if you are gonna do it as a business, use these amazing marketing extras that they give business accounts.
Salena: Yeah, and I have to admit, I haven't ever been in the analytic section. I tend to be a Pinterest browser. I know that part of our marketing strategy is just simply that when we do an episode it gets pinned to my board. And I've just gone in there and saying I have 12 hundred and 79 average monthly viewers. I don't know if that's good or bad but that seems pretty impressive to me.
Kathryn: No that is fantastic, it is, it's amazing.
Salena: And I was like wow, I really should be working on this. Like if I have that many people, that's probably more engagement than I get on Facebook. This is somewhere I need to go and hang out a little bit more. So thank you. I went and clicked on that when you are talking. So now that I know that I have some... look if you have 5000 or 10000, don't burst my bubble okay. I'm feeling pretty good at 12 hundred. If you are listening now and you go in there and you've got 20,000 yeah for you. But it's my first time looking and I'm pretty impressed with 1279 up to 20% it says. So now that I've done that, what is my best option from here? Do I go and find my most pinned thing and create an ad from it? Where would I go to maximize my advertising on Pinterest?
13:25 Kathryn: So what you would ideally want to do with that is if you go into analytics and you can see what your top performing pins are. You gonna want to make sure that you schedule those for the month ahead to go after any group boards that you are a part of. So group boards on Pinterest are boards where there are multiple collaborates on a board. And you get to join that board which will have another person's followers attached to it. So if someone creates a group board and if you get to be a collaborate on it, you get access to their audience on Pinterest as well. But not only that, you also get access to the collaborators. So you are able to pin your content on that board and it increases your reach. Quite drastically which is really nice when you first start out on Pinterest. So I would always suggest taking those top performing pins and then going ahead and pinning those again onto those group boards and then unto any relevant boards that you have on your profile for the next couple of months. You can also take a look at your top performing boards in your analytics and you can see which of your boards are performing the best. Spend a bit of time and using keyword optimization in those description on the board and on the pins. Another thing would be potentially to take a look at the analytics from other people's content on your profile. So when you go into analytics you are gonna see a green box in the left hand corner. And that is actually analytics of your entire profile. So that's your pins and other people's pins that you've added to your profile. Now with that you are gonna be able to see what got the most clicks, what got the most saves. And you will be able to identify a trend, what is it that people are actually clicking on and saving of my content and other people's content. If it's a hospital packing checklist, and you haven't created one, then go ahead create a blog post If it's got to do with a specific product that just keeps coming up over and over again, take a look and see if you can create another version of that product. Maybe in a different colour. Maybe it's got to be marketed slightly different to a different audience, whether its like mine for example with baby clothing happens to be a gift bundle. Baby gift bundle, so it's gender neutral and from what I could tell, people really liked the idea of that gift bundle. So I went into creating potentially another one with slightly different colours. It was a Bahamian style gift bundle and so on. And you can actually use your analytics to identify that. If you want to really maximize your pins engagement, the traffic and everything, the best possible thing to do is to focus on your search engine optimization. And that means making sure that your pin descriptions have key words in them that are searchable on Pinterest. It's so important because if your audience is on Pinterest and they are actually searching for a baby beanie. And you haven't used the word baby beanie in your pin description, then your pin isn't going to be shown. Pinterest won't show your pin in front of that ideal client. So the base where to find those kinds of key boards is actually just to hop onto Pinterest and go into the search bar and type baby clothing. And find out what kind of key words people are searching. And the way you'll do this is when you type in baby clothing you'll see these little blocks appear underneath the search bar. Those are the top searched key words in relation to baby clothing. So maybe baby clothing beanies, baby clothing for boys, anything like that and you are going to start seeing what people are actually searching for on Pinterest. And that will allow you to create a really amazing pin description that uses those key words that you formed from Pinterest. And now your pin is gonna show up in multiple places on Pinterest. So you don't even have to go ahead and pin that too much. You are working on the ACO optimization to make sure it shows up in the search results.
17:20 Salena: Oh there you go. I was just thinking, as I scrolled through Pinterest. All I see are things like this would look good on me. And clearly, the people who are writing that don't know what they are doing.
Kathryn: Exactly, I know, I know. Like if you go into my feed for example on my country's business account or my services, I'm just seeing Instagram. How do you use Instagram to drive sales? How do you improve your country's profile? How do you do all of that? Like I'm looking at it now and it's just all about the business side. And that's because Pinterest knows that's what I am focused on. And what I share because of the search engine optimization that I have used. So that's so important and then the next best thing to do to amplify that is just to pin every single day. And you can re-pin a pin from your website multiple times to the same board. Just space it out a little bit.
18:22 Salena: Okay, so here is a question for you. Because while you are talking I am clicking on all these things that you are saying. So I can ask some very intelligent questions. How come, I think I know the answer to these. But I've just gone to one of my boards, one of the boards that have all the podcast episodes on it. And I' pretty sure that my assistant when he does the podcast, he goes to the website and he clicks pin and then he saves it to our board. But now that I've gone in there, now I'm freaking out about the; what is the writing when pinning these things and we have no text. Which is clearly why I have nothing on all of those ones that we've just gone through and pinned because I am not optimizing these for Pinterest because Pinterest has no idea what my podcast episode is about. So why has it not pulled that information from the website when it is been pinned. I know he pins it from the website. He doesn't like uploading. He pins it directly from the website, So I'm sure I'm not the only person who has had this problem. What are we doing wrong?
19:31 Kathryn: So if you click on a pin and enlarge it, do you see a large black titled font at the top with the header of that podcast episode?
Salena: No, it just says saved from Celenei.com.
Kathryn: Okay so that means you don't have rich enabled. And that something you are going to want to do so that you can get access to that ability to pull through the description. But an important thing to remember still is if you do have rich pins enabled but you don't set the description on your actual website, then it won't be able to pull that through because it won't know what it is. We generally always create the title of our product or our podcast episode but we don't set the description. So whether you are using squared press or word press, anything like that. Setting your description will help that pull through. Because then it has text to obviously pull through.
20:26 Salena: Yes, so is the rich pins very hard to install? Is that a plugin or what happens then?
Kathryn: If you are using word press you can use a plugin called ...20:37 SEO. And what you will do is you will verify your website with Pinterest using your SEO. And then you just go to the rich pin verification and you can click there. So I have a couple of steps for that in that free check list at the end that I was going to chat to you about.
Salena: Well lets quickly talk about that now then. You have a free checklist that you are going, which of course we will link to. What in the free checklist?
21:01 Kathryn: So it's a ten step checklist. It's basically the beginner ten steps that you need to follow to ensure that you have a search engine optimized Pinterest...21:10 So it's setting up the business account, setting the proper name, setting the proper boards, using keywords and all of that. And in there I talk about rich pins. And then I link to a place where you'll get the steps to do that. So it's really those ten steps that are going to help you set up this profile properly with links to different examples as well. So you'll be able to click through on those and then see them wherever I place them.
21:35 Salena: Great I'm gonna download that and give it to my fantastic assistant
who listens to these episodes because he edits just in case anything goes wrong. And in fact I'm pretty sure he listens to it because he actually enjoys listening to all the business stuff as well. But when he goes through to listen to this, he will like Sal you don't have to tell me. I've already gone and downloaded it myself. And of course, we would to this show notes in for that checklist. Because clearly, this is why, when I am scrolling through Pinterest I sometimes see nothing because people are a Pinterest novice like I am. And clearly consumers rather than users or advertisers. So we are going to fix that really, really quickly.
22:20 Kathryn: Definitely, and also another thing to note quickly is that you can include hashtags now in your description on Pinterest. It never used to be something that we would suggest because it wasn't searchable. But now Pinterest at the end of last year in April put searchable hashtags. But we only add in two or three. You don't want to overload the hash tags. It's not the same as the Instagram description for example.
Salena: So let's go back to, we are kind of jumping along the ship here. Only because I was so interested in what you were saying. I was so Pinterested in what you were saying. I was like I have to click my own account so that I can ask some really intelligent questions. Let's get back to ads and I'm not going to go click through the ad creation thing. But do you recommend Pinterest ads for retailers? You've got your own retail store. Does it work for you?
23:13 Kathryn: Yes, I think it is really important to use Pinterest ads but I do have some suggestions. And I don't recommend it right in the beginning. So it's not something you want to go into if you haven't used Pinterest for at least one to three months. And the reason I say this is when you actually promote a pin, you need to promote a pin that is already on your Pinterest profile. So what I always suggest is that you add a pin to Pinterest. Well, you have all of your business pins of course that lead to your product. And over the first one to three months, you are going to be re-pinning this content daily, you are going to be improving the search engine optimization on that pin. And you are really going to make sure that it gets the best exposure that it possibly could. Now at the end of three months, you will notice which of your pins are performing the best. If you want to promote something, in particular, you want to ensure that you are actually getting organic click-throughs before click-throughs before potentially, you don't know if the design is really attractive for your ideal client. You don't know if it's really going to make them click through. So you want to actually ensure that you are getting organic click-throughs before you promote the pin. And then you'll know that the money you invest is actually going further for you.
24:33 Salena: That is a very sound strategy. And we do that with Facebook ads. As I said that you are the Pinterest lady, I am the Facebook ads lady. So one of the things I tell people to do with Facebook ads is, go and create a post on your page and it gets engagement, then at least you know that it's got some social proof already. You know that there is a good chance that we can turn that into a converting ad. Obviously, it depends on what you are trying to sell. But that is the easiest way, you want to know that you are not going to be wasting your money. SO you are saying the exact same things. Find the pin that is getting the traffic, that is pulling the people, getting the engagement, pushing the traffic to your website. And from there you can choose to put money into it. That is a very, very smart thing to do. And I'm so glad now that I got stuck on how to create the ads. Because I don't think that I was doing anything like that. I can't even remember what I was going to promote. But I remember going in there and I was just like, this looks way too hard. I have to think about this. Whereas Facebook ads come naturally to me. After many, many years of using them.
25:39 Kathryn: Yea, of course, exactly. It always becomes easier once you now how to use the back end. So with Pinterest ads, something I really enjoyed is obviously once you know this pin is going to work, you simply go into generally it's the traffic option that you want. And so you are going to click on the traffic ad. And you can actually set audiences, and set look alike audiences. So if you have been using Pinterest for three months or more. You'll have people who have engaged with your pins before. Maybe click through to your site. Now you can actually target those people again with this specific ad. 26:13
You can also target look-alike people who are similar to that. It's very similar to Facebook where you can create the audiences that you desire. And then the second thing that I absolutely love is that a lot of the advertising is focused on keyword optimization. So you actually type in the keywords you want your pin to show up under in this promotion campaign. Pinterest wants to know exact phrases, similar phrases and then basic words that maybe you want to show up with, even if they linked slightly differently. So you get all these different options that you can use. And that kind of makes you feel a little bit better when you know and you've gone to Pinterest, you've searched keywords. You know that your audience types in baby beanies for example. You want to make sure that your promoted pin will show up when people search that. So they actually let you put in those keywords. I would say it's quite a great update that they did. It's not just like okay, add on a couple of tags or keywords. It really is the basis of those promotions at the moment. They really use that to place your ad.
27:25 Salena: Alright, it just goes back to what you said originally which is kind of like your Instagram and Google having a baby. You've got that Google AdWords to the section where you can choose the keywords that you want to target. Which you can't necessarily do in Facebook and Instagram. But you can use that here and if you were smart, I'm just taking my Facebook ad knowledge. But if you are smart, those keywords wouldn't and correct me here because obviously, I haven't done it. Those keywords wouldn't necessarily have to be relative to what it is you are selling. So let's say, for example, your baby beanies, you might put pregnancy. Would that be correct?
Salena: Because even though it's kind of related. Or nursery day call even though beanie is not related. You want your pin to show up especially if you are paying for someone who is searching for nursery day call.
28:24 Kathryn: Definitely. Yeah, you can really put in a combination like that. And also the great thing is that during the campaign you can add or remove keywords. So you can go back and see the kind of money you spent on each keyword. So each keyword would be separated and it will say how much money you've spent promoting on that keyword for example. So if it's cost you a lot of money and it didn't get any conversions, you can delete that keyword from the promotion live. And then add in a new one potentially. And if you got a really great performing keyword, then you will obviously keep it and remove lower performing keywords. So that more money gets spent on the higher converting keyword.
29:02 Salena: Oh, I like that, I like that. I am going to have to go back and revisit. Once we've got our rich pin set up and we go and we go and put descriptions for our 123 pins in. So we can actually start getting pinned for things. I probably will need to go back. And once we've got some data because I went in there and the pins that we're pinning, the pins that have had the interest, they are quite random actually. And not all of them are mine. They are obviously things where like I have a board for home office design inspiration. SO some of the pins from in there; so how does that work? How does that work for my profile? Obviously, you couldn't promote a pin that is not yours. But how does that work for my profile if something I pinned from somebody else is on my board? Do I get the credit for it? Just because you know I've got great curation skills?
29:53 Kathryn: In your analytics when you go in you are going to see three blocks. The green block, purple block and blue block, and the blue block is focused purely on your website analytic. So that's the one you want to go to when you want to find out which of your pins are performing the best. The green box on the far left hand corner is the combination. That's gonna show you your pins on your profile and any pins across Pinterest that you've pinned to your profile that you added. And the analytics for those pins are gonna show up, your audience, anybody who saw those pin, clicked on it, re-pinned it or whatever. That came from your profile, so it was the one that was on your profile, you're getting analytics on those pins for example. So you are seeing the click throughs and all of that. Now it does actually help your profile because what Pinterest is doing is seeing that your profile is curated really well that you've actually put together a really good source of information. And all of the re-pins and click throughs on these other pins are helping your profile perform better across Pinterest. So Pinterest is thinking you are really good at what you do. You are a really good source of information. You're not a spammer. You create quality content. SO we are gonna show your profile, your pins, your boards across Pinterest more often. SO that is one of the important reasons why we do curate other people's content onto our feed.
31:13 Salena: Isn't it interesting because Instagram, and I just finished up a podcast and Instagram sort of strategy person and it's funny on Instagram, there is a bit of a fine line between re-posting other people's content. Some people are okay with it and some people are not okay with it. And yet Pinterest, the whole concept is kind of built on pinning really great stuff even if it's not your own so that you can boost your brand.
Kathryn: Exactly, I know. Your goal is to really get your pin on other people's profiles and then also more click-throughs on it. So it is, it's all about sharing. But it's interesting that you say that because I've heard a lot of people say like, I can't add other people's content to my profile. or other people have been adding that to their profile, I don't like them. It's like no, you love that. I'm telling you, you love it.
32:08 Salena: If you don't like it you are on the wrong platform.
Kathryn: And then once you explained that exactly, that it's not stealing it's really curation. It's them saying your content was good enough for me to add to my profile.And also you have to look at it another way. You may have answered the question, so your podcast, the one we are doing now for example, if we add this to Pinterest, any business owner who is really interested in learning about Pinterest and understanding it may actually save this to their profile because they want to look through it, come back to it. They want to use it when they decide to set up their Pinterest profile. SO they are saving that inspiration and that knowledge for a later date sometimes. And sometimes they are saving it because they know that it's good for their audience. So it's a balance of both depending on who is pinning your content.
32:59 Salena: Yeah, and it's funny just looking; I have to admit, I have more consumer than a user, Pinterest we've just put there because we had someone a little while ago he would say, you have to be on Pinterest. And I was like, just go and add it. It takes you to seconds. Just click, pin, so he goes to a Pinterest board and we've got our name claim. Clearly we did not do the rich pin thing and we did not take enough away from that episode to implement. So I'm glad that you are refreshing it for us. But the boards that I've created, and I do have one on colour ways and I have some visual merchandising ones, and I have some shop windows displays. They are actually ones that I kind of built for myself as much as I do, I've got the secret board which have my dinner recipes and things. But these are boards that I've either put together for my clients and said look, I'll put some Christmas window inspiration on Pinterest board for you. And just spend some time doing that. This is part of what I do for them. So these boards that I have on my home office inspiration was when I was re=designing my home office. It never occurred to me like maybe I should have made those secret because I was usually doing them for a client. But those are bringing all these trafficking so where I'm going with this conversation is, if you are a retailer, let's say you are a home ways retailer. You don't have to just pin your stuff. It's about curating, so maybe you want to go and curate a board on the farm house look and what you love about it so that people get your taste and what your shop is inspired by. And maybe you have a scanty board and you have a Bohow34:41 board and all these other things that have nothing to do with your store particularly. But they are more brand cohesiveness, they are telling people how your brand likes to think and what your brand is interested in.
34:54 Kathryn: Definitely, and you also have to think outside the box sometimes. If you create bags for example, beautiful handmaid bags or anything like that. You could create a travel board. And you would ask me why would you create a travel board? And the reason is because some of your audience might actually utilize these bags while they travel. And you want to make sure that you are attracting that audience. And so in this travel board you are gonna be sharing how people can use the bag during their travels. The best places to go, all those kinds of tips. And sometimes you actually have to think outside of your industry, your frame of mind, you have to think beyond that. And it sometimes gets a little complicated. But even for someone during a product based business like that, it's not just sticking with your product and what you do. Even in the baby clothing industry for example, I have boards like the nursery boards, the hospital bag checklist, pregnancy, mom's fashions, or fashion that you would want to wear as a mom that's running around with the kids at the playground or anything like that. So you've got all these different options where you could also share your content. But you also are using it to attract your ideal client. So sometimes you are adding a board that is just like beyond your industry or your actual product. But you can add your, let's say not your inspiration but your ideas. Like you said that your perspective on it, what you like about it to those boards.
36:24 Salena: You know what I love about this whole, you're talking and I have to be, it's your morning and my evening when we were recording this. And maybe that has something to do with where my mind is floating to. Floating being the operative word here because I was sitting here thinking, this is the kind of work that you can do sitting in the bath. You can be curating boards in the bath tub. It is a great procrastination too where you feel like procrastinating but you can actually do some work in the process.
37:00 Kathryn: Definitely, it really is. It's something you can do anywhere anytime.
Salena: Alright, so you've heard, I've given you dozens of examples of the mistakes that I am currently making on my Pinterest board. But tell me what are the top mistakes that you see other people making.
Kathryn: I have seen a lot of people pinning square images with very Instagram like images for example. So you wanting to take what you do on Instagram and putting it on to Pinterest. And it isn't completely wrong. But Pinterest is really about the long vertical graphics. You are thinking 33 ratio sizing.
37:40 Salena: I actually had that as a question to ask you. And I was thinking no, I've made myself sound really inadequate. So I'm just going to scrap that question, so thank you for answering that.
Kathryn: Not a problem, it's just that when you think of the Pinterest feed, you are not trying to take up too much space in the feed. But you are really trying to stand out. And when you think of it, they are searching on their phone. And it's not like Instagram where you are scrolling and you see one image at a time taking up a full square. You are actually going to see two or three pins next to each other on the mobile phone potentially. So you really are trying to take up the long vertical space as opposed to a small square that is going to scroll pass very quickly. And one of the key things to this as well is if you are a product base business for example, and you are trying to come up with what kind of pin you are going to put on Pinterest for this product. Really think about your audience and the fact that if they come to see it, they not only want to get inspiration from it. They want to see the lifestyle version. So it's used in real life, not just the product picture from the website. So you really want to captivate them and get them to click through because they can see themselves using this product. So you can used the product image from your website but I encourage you to create another one which is specific to the lifestyle version. And then also one that has text on the image showing them what it is or moving them to actually click through. So for example if you have a beautiful image for a podcast episode, and it's meant to portray that we're discussing Pinterest but there is no text on the image, no one is going to know what it's about. So you want to make sure that it says, the base where you use Pinterest for your business as it takes overly on the image. So that's sometimes the issues as is when people have these beautiful images but there is no text on it so I don't know what it's about or they've just used the product image from the store and it doesn't really; I don't see how I can use it in my life as much. I'm getting to see a little bit of the product but it's just not moving me to actually click through. 39:51 So you really wanting to see how you can design your pin in multiple ways which is why I always say create a couple of templates. So do one that's lifestyle, one that's product focused, one that's showing them, think of if you're going into a store and you want to know about this handbag. What questions would you ask? Well I want to see the inside. So show me a picture of the inside on Pinterest. Even if it's a long vertical graphic with multiple images in it. Show me exactly what I would ask you, like I want to see the inside of the handbag, I want to see how big it is in comparison to a woman's body for example. And then, so I want to see is wearing it. And then I want to see what is the zip made of. Because that always frustrates me when the zips don't work. So think about your audience coming into a physical store and now you are trying to answer those questions using your images.
40:39 Salena: I love that because it was my birthday just recently and I did buy a handbag. And I had to search the...40:46 looking for exactly what you just said, a picture of the person with a handbag because I like a small handbag but it has to fit over my shoulder. I don't do a carry handbag. And so you couldn't quite tell if the handles are were going to be long enough to go over your shoulder. So I was just Googling and Googling and Googling trying to find a blogger or somebody who had this bag over their shoulder. And eventually I did find one and I was like yes I will buy that. But I think sometimes we completely over think this. You are saying this and I thought just click over to the feed to look at what you are saying. And I am paying attention to the interview, don't worry. And I'm looking at a screen and I can see the long vertical ones which look great. And the little tiny square one there with no text and it says 12 lunch box pillows because clearly I have been searching for lunch box foods because school just went back. But then to the left of it the very pretty image that says strawberry lime cucumber mint water. Like hello we know how to make it. You don't have to give me the recipe, strawberry, lime and cucumber with mint in a water jar. But it's got the text on there. And I was just thinking as you were talking that is exactly what you are trying to point out. And I should maybe take a screenshot of this and put it in the show notes. Underneath it does say the exact same thing. But if it didn't have the text on top I would be thinking, so what is that a picture of. Is that like a party thing? What are you trying to show me. We get a little bit text phobic because Face book doesn't necessarily like text. And Instagram is so small that you don't want to fill it up with text. But sometimes just state the bleeding obvious and it's going to be helpful.
42:42 Kathryn: Exactly, I mean I'm looking at a pin now at the moment that is a gorgeous picture of a bedroom. And then underneath it, so it's part of the image. It's a really long image here. They've actually separated each item in the bedroom with the name of the item. So you could and click it. So they show you the individual product image at the bottom and then they showed you the actual room with everything in it. And I'm like now I want to get it. Because before I would see it and say that's lovely but maybe a can save it for an idea. But now I can see that I can actually get it. So let me save that or click through on that because I know I'm going to get links to those products. So it's just simple things like that. Even with just your product images or anything like that. Like you said, how am I going to know what the actual image is about. I saw one with an high tower and someone like a couple and champagne glasses and wearing a watch. Now my question was, is it about travel? Are you trying to sell the watch? Does it have to do with the champagne? What was the actual image about? What are you linking me to? Am I going to a travel blog or am I going to a watch store? And it's trying to make that as clear as possible for your audience.
43:53 Salena: Yea let's just, I feel like Pinterest is where you dumb it down. Not because people are dumb but because you are scrolling so fast that...44:01
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