Salena Knight 0:02
So hey there, and welcome to the bringing business to retail podcast. If you're looking to get more sales, more customers, master your marketing and ultimately take control of your retail or E commerce business, then you're in the right place. I'm Selena Knight, a retail growth strategist and multi award winning store owner whose superpower is uncovering exactly what your business requires to move to the next level. I'll provide you with the strategies, the tools and the insight you need to scale your store. All you need to do is take action. Ready to get started.

Salena Knight 0:52
Hey there, and welcome to the bringing business to retail podcast now, three of our core values are bold, knowledgeable and insightful. And I was recently talking to my mentor about the word bold, because she said to me, what does that mean for you, or what does it mean for your business? Like, what do you when you say that that's a core value? What do I have to be to be bold? And I said, Well, that's an interesting question, because to me, being bold is about being able to ask the hard questions, whether it's to somebody else or whether it's to yourself. It's being able to know that you're an in an uncomfortable position, but that's okay, because the goal, the outcome, is going to put you somewhere different to where you were before. And for me, bold being part of our core values means that the people who are on my team are going to push themselves, they're going to push the people that they work with. They're going to push each other, they're going to push me. And so it was funny when I recently met Lee Burgess, whose company is the bold industry groups and has a bold framework. I knew that I had to have her on the show. Now I'm going to jump in and just give you a quick funny story. My brother. Love him to bits. Cannot say the word bald, as in having no hair on his head. And he has no hair on his head, and he always says the word bold. And I'm like, there's like, accents and everything. It's a big difference between, sorry, it's a very small difference between the word bold and bold. And so when I'm talking about bold, B, O, L, D, that is what Lee is here to talk to you about. So welcome Lee.

Leigh Burgess 2:38
Well, thank you so much for having me. I am ready to jump into everything. Bold, okay,

Salena Knight 2:42
I have to ask you, can you say the word bald, as in, no hair and bold at the same time?

Speaker 1 2:49
Yeah, bald meaning, like no hair and then bold, meaning all the things we're going to talk about today. I

Salena Knight 2:56
feel like your your accent is better at defining those two words, they're not than mine is probably so how did you end up with a company called Bold industry groups? And I would love to know during the conversation, don't have to say it right now. What does bold mean to you? Yeah,

Speaker 1 3:13
no, I love that. Yeah. So I actually created bold industries group after getting to a point in the middle of 2020 just in complete burnout. And I didn't know it was burnout then, but it absolutely was. I had, I think, throughout my career, said one statement with bold in it, and I would say to my team, we're going to take a big swing of bold right here, meaning that we're going to thoughtfully think about what could happen right and what could happen wrong, and we're going to plan for both, and then we're going to move forward and really innovate or advance or do something new or turn something around, and have no guarantee of success, but we're going to do it anyway. And so those big swings of bold certainly were, were things that I did across my career at Duke and at Dartmouth, and then had the opportunity when I created my own company, to take a really big swing of bold, which I just got to a point where I actually quit my job without having a plan. I just had to choose me, choose myself, and then step forward into fear and also feel this sense of freedom at the same time that I was going to figure it out. And that really is my definition. It's moving forward, even though fear might be telling you to stop or to pause, but to realize you just need to take the first step forward and and that's what we did. So we're we just celebrated four years in September, we have launched many different pieces of our business, from a consulting model to coaching to events and a membership. And then I have a book coming out, which is all about the bold framework that I actually created when I was just trying to figure out my what's next. And I like to follow something. I needed a framework. And so I created my my framework, which I love acronyms, to believe own, learn design. And that really forms up the word bold.

Salena Knight 4:59
I. Okay, I'm going to get into the bold framework in a moment. But what was it you were doing? Because you said that you worked in some very prestigious pieces, but what was it, what were you doing there? I love the fact, I'm just going to put a side note here. I love the fact that we have a very similar definition, that it is about pushing yourself outside of, outside of your comfort zone, but I know that you have a lot of definitions that people have given you, so we'll come back to that. But what were you doing before you went out on your own that caused the burnout? And then we'll jump into the bold framework? Sure,

Speaker 1 5:33
absolutely so in healthcare the majority of my career. So over 25 years, I was at Duke and I was the Chief Research Operations Officer for the Duke Cancer Institute there and and ran all admin ops. So I was the operations person through and through. A great place for me to be from an innovative, innovative agitator perspective. So, you know, just go as fast as we can at the highest levels of quality and doing what we can for our patients. And so wonderful space in place for me to be then had the opportunity to come to New England and help Dartmouth with their research operations and really create a space that was new and innovative and also set them up for success moving forward. So had an incredible career at both of those places, but I think what I had done over time is just continue to take on more responsibility, or fill the gaps where maybe we didn't have resources, or I didn't have people, and I had this false negative belief about myself, that I was responsible for everything, even though it wasn't mine to be responsible for. So I did what I always did, which worked in the past, which was, you know, take on more responsibility, do more, work harder, work longer, and it just got to a point where, you know, I was working 17 hours a day easily. And I just got to a point, especially in the middle of the pandemic, in 2020 that something had to give. I think I had a mindset that, what would I do, and how could I, you know, I never thought about being an entrepreneur. How could I even make a living. It felt very selfish to choose myself, but it was just that was a mindset that I needed to get over, and I needed to move forward with the belief in myself that I could be successful. Because at that time, I felt like I was the one who was lagging in my belief about myself, everyone else, my family, my loved ones that are like you can do it, whatever you set your mind to you can do. And so I just, you know, ran pretty hard in a career, and I think I ignored all the warning signs, or I reset them. So the, you know, the red light went to green again. And I just needed to get healthy on pretty much every level of health, whether it's mental or physical or spiritual, emotional, all of them needed a tune up. For sure.

Salena Knight 7:40
Do you think that you said that you were in charge? You took that operations role, but you kept taking on more and more things, and you felt responsible for just about everything. And I know that feeling, because I feel that all the time too. Do you think that's a leadership quality?

Speaker 1 7:57
I think I think having ownership, which is the second letter of the framework, is really, really important. But I think where I went astray, or maybe took it a step too far, was, you know, in going into spaces that really weren't mine to own. And I think for me, it came from a space of just wanting to fix and keep things moving forward, and also keep things safe. Because we're in healthcare, and, you know, specifically clinical research, it's already an innovative area, but we have to make sure that we're, you know, following the guidelines, doing the things that keep our patients safe. And so there was this, like, heightened sense of responsibility for me, and I think I've always had that. I lost my brother when I was six and he was 11, so there was this sense of responsibility to keep everybody safe or fill the gaps so that, you know, doesn't feel like anyone's missing. So I think that just kind of exacerbated itself into my work world where I enjoy being responsible. I enjoy being the one that people depend on. But I think, you know, any skill used too much can just become a detriment to you as a leader. But I do think ownership is important, but I also think it's also important to own your successes as much as the things that you have to work on. And that's really where I had it upside down. I was always thinking about what wasn't going right, or what could be fixed, or what could be better. I very rarely celebrated the wins, the small wins, the big wins, anything in between, and I skipped over those pretty easily.

Salena Knight 9:27
It's interesting is that we set these goals for ourselves, and we strive so hard to get there, but yet it's like, I don't know. I think it's an entrepreneurial thing. Once you get there, it's kind of like, yeah, yeah, next,

Speaker 1 9:39
yeah, you see the next right? You get to the peak and like, okay, there's the next one right? Or you move a goal post on yourself, and you need to cut that out.

Salena Knight 9:49
I know we're gonna get there in a minute, but I just I have some questions that we didn't necessarily discuss beforehand, so I hope you're okay with me going there. Go for it. And I say this as a question I ask. You this question, because I know it's something that I have identified within myself, and I think the people who listen are very much of a similar mindset in you know, we own our own businesses. We're always striving to do the next thing, but if I can just take you back to those times when you were slotting yourselves into the different sections of the business to fill the gaps, and you said that you felt a sense of responsibility for that, thinking back now, was it a sense of responsibility, or was it more trying to keep control of everything? Because this is something that I have found in myself, that I quite often think I'm taking responsibility. But actually, when I sit back and, you know, in in hindsight, I think actually you were just trying to control the situation. And I think as as leaders and business owners, it's something we do jump into, almost as second nature. Yeah,

Speaker 1 10:54
I think it's a fair question. I think for me, at times, there probably was a sense of, I want to really be in charge and accountable, and I want to be the one who's in air quotes control. And probably, if I think back of those moments, the reason that I felt that way is maybe I thought I could do it better, or maybe I thought I knew more about it or had more experience. And possibly I did, but it still wasn't mine to be responsible for. And I think, you know, I think that wasn't always the case, but I do think it's a fair question. And probably some of the space where I did take on responsibility that probably, you know, wore me down was in those spaces that really wasn't mine to have, and I was just trying to control it in a sense of like, in my mind, I would probably rationalize it like, well, if I have control of it, then everything will be safe, everything will be done on time, everything will be done right within budget, all of that. And it, it doesn't work that way. I think, you know, maybe a very short period of time there's some type of alignment or false balance around it, but it's going to actually probably knock you at some point, because it's it's just more than you need, and it's probably not the right space for you to actually be in. And with your skill sets,

Salena Knight 12:10
you have summed it up, and I think that that's what I have discovered as I've matured, is that, yes, the things I've sometimes try and control, because I think I'm taking ownership of them, are genuinely those things that end up burning me out. And it sounds like a lot of those things were the catalysts, fun things, but never fun things. That's the thing. It's never like, Oh, I'll take on. I don't know. I find the strategy stuff exciting, but let's say you have strategy

Speaker 1 12:37
and anything like creative or innovative, right? But like, I don't really want to know about tech or, you know, do some of the finance stuff, although those are responsibilities, obviously. But I mean, those are some areas that I kind of crept into. And maybe initially it was because we didn't have the people, or we didn't have the partner, or maybe, you know, the person I didn't think who was my partner, you know, they were, weren't paying enough attention to it, or whatever it may be, and and then what you do find out is it just starts to burn you out, because it's not one, it's not your space to be in two. You're probably having to, you know, over adjust or do things so that you can learn faster do things well, like, you know, all the all the pieces, so that you can actually be a lead or in control of something within that space, and then ultimately, that just uses a lot of your energy, and

Salena Knight 13:26
that's where you ended up. So you ended up burnt out. You decided to leave these very prestigious organizations that you've worked for and go out on your own. And in that time, you developed the bold framework, which I think is brilliant. So can you work us through what do each of the letters stand for, and how do we implement those into our everyday lives?

Speaker 1 13:49
Sure, yeah, so the framework actually can be used with individuals and organizations. And we'll start with kind of the individual lens on it. So it stands for, believe, own, learn, design. And for me, the acronym really was something I needed to actually help me figure out kind of the steps forward. And for me, when I made this change, which was I had to believe in myself, I had to also understand kind of what were some of my underlying beliefs about success, or beliefs about what was possible, or beliefs about what does aligned life look like? For me, I don't use the word balance. I use alignment because I feel like it can be in alignment longer than balance, and you can still easily get whacked out of alignment. But for me, it lasts a little longer. For me, I wasn't aligned with my values, so my values about how I operated in my life, or my family, my friends, my relationships, but those are the things that probably suffered the most because of how I was working. I also had to look at some of the shadows that I think for me, like I just had a whole bunch of I'm not enough, and I think I was and again, I go back to losing my brother, you know, so. Young, just trying to fill the gap so that my parents never were upset, never were disappointed, never were, you know, they were always happy, you know. So I wanted to people please, I guess, in a way, but I no one told me I had to. I think it's just something I did. And so that also kind of pulled itself into, I think, my world, in the corporate setting, we're just trying to make sure everyone's happy. And, you know, and I think what I would do is I would inconvenience myself for the convenience of others. And I think, again, that's another thing that, like, kind of goes into it, but I spent a lot of time in the beliefs, and I I've personally did things like the belief audit, which is one of the activities in the books and in the book, and really just looking at, kind of, what were the things I was saying to myself, What was I thinking about myself? And then really an understanding, kind of, like, even if you just, you know, do a T chart and put your thought down on on the left hand side, and then that's really your belief, the belief about yourself and on the right hand side. Really, like, is that actually true? Is that something logical Is that something you need to do something about, or maybe stop speaking to yourself like you're speaking to yourself, because I found that I spoke to myself unlike I would ever speak to a friend, and pretty harsh. So

Salena Knight 16:15
can you give us some examples for those who are listening and maybe not listening very closely, what you said is, do a T chat. So draw a line, put a line down the middle, in the shape of a T, and on one side, we're writing our thoughts. Your

Speaker 1 16:27
belief, already, yeah. Your belief, yeah. Your belief, yeah. Like, I believe I am successful. I believe I can't be an entrepreneur. I believe I'm, you know, not able to do anything other than a job I have. Like, I believe I can do it. So, like, just, even, like, just, just let your mind go, and even if it's like, for 10 minutes, like, do you know, do as much as you can in that time frame. Don't like, just do it for 30 seconds. Like, write it down. And then the other column, you're now going to look at every belief statement you said about yourself, and then you're gonna, is that actually true? So, but put a you know, a plus for the you know ones that are you know, ones that are true, or things that you think are actually accurate, and then put a negative, or a negative sign for ones that you know are not accurate or are overly harsh on yourself, you know, from from that perspective. And then it's time to sit with it and just start to kind of peel back, like, where did that come from? You could use a coach. You could use a therapist. You could use both, just to kind of roll through those but for me, after running so hard in the corporate world and then making this, what I call, like, this big swing of bold and to be an entrepreneur, I felt like I had a lot to learn. But it was also this sense of like freedom that I talked about before. So there was interesting things that I was seeing in my belief audit. But I think, you know, for me, the big one was just overcoming that I'm not enough, and kind of figuring out where that came from. And I was 48 at that time. I'm 52 now, and even in the last year, I'm still like, oh, that's where they came from, like some of my podcasts, when I talk to people about what their definition of bold is, just hearing what they're saying and kind of seeing where it's coming from, also kind of creates another layer of understanding for me, except about myself. And you know, being bold is a personal definition. It's not someone else's. It's really yours to own. And so that's why we get into ownership, and that's really, you know, where you kick off, owning your successes and your setbacks. And I mentioned previously that I just, I didn't really celebrate anything, like it was great. We did good job moving on. Like we got a lot to do, let's go. And I needed to slow that down, slow that roll a bit, and kind of just sit in it, and I don't like attention. I like appreciation, but I don't like attention. And so was it something I like to really stay there very often. And so for me, it had to really sit with some of the things that, you know, were wins. And I think for women, sometimes it actually is hard for us to kind of sit in those and kind of celebrate them or feel like we're, you know, able to talk about things that feel good or feel like a win. I want

Salena Knight 19:07
to talk more about ownership, but you just said something really important, and I have to say you, as you said it, it was like a light bulb went off in my head. You just said, I like appreciation, but I don't necessarily like attention. And in my head, I just thought, oh my gosh, that is my daughter hates attention, hates attention, but loves appreciation. So thank you for that. That was just like, just just a moment where I'm like, You know what? I have to I have to take a little bit more time to make sure, like, I think I do it, but maybe I need to take a lot more effort and mindfulness around telling her how much I appreciate the things that she does. That's just a little side note, but thank

Speaker 1 19:49
you for that. Yeah, you may have staff, yeah, a daughter, obviously, very, very important, but you may have staff that are also like that, but you know, they don't want to get an award on a stage or be in a newsletter or be on social media. You. Just want you to, like, stick a thank you card under their door so the next day they come in, it's there. And those are things like I would do for my team, is just let them know that I'm appreciating them every day. And I think for me, I needed to turn that around and actually start appreciating me for myself and the things that you know I had done to get to certain areas of my career and be in certain places in my life. So can I

Salena Knight 20:24
ask you, what are some of those things that you've done, because you said, and I'm not going to let us gloss over this, because I reckon this is the one we gloss over, especially as women, the most is this ownership, ownership of successes, but I'm guessing also ownership of lessons that we might have learned. But what are some of the things that you have done, or that you have worked with business owners to do, to take on that ownership? I'm going to say more of the positive things, because I feel like I take a lot of ownership of the negative things. Yeah,

Speaker 1 20:54
yeah, there's less, I think for me, using the bold framework with individuals and organizations. So organizations, if you think about the beliefs within an organization, who owns what, when we're trying to accomplish something, whether it's an, you know, whether it's an action plan or implementation or a lot of turnarounds, are things that I work on when things are really a mess and we've just got to stay calm. Let's, you know, start with step one. And so I think that's really important for organizations to do, and then to also kind of be in that growth mindset, learning zone, and then start designing, and that's really the bold framework for an organization. I think I've seen a lot of turnarounds within the organizations that I used to work in, and also with the ones I'm working with now, in a consulting manner of just being able to take a bold step. And I think what's interesting is there's five myths of being bold around bold, and I think one of them that I talk about in the book is that it has to be big and loud, and it just has to be this huge thing. And there's a whole continuum of being bold for individuals and organizations. And it can be very, very quiet steps that you're taking. It could be creating a plan. It could be working on the culture within your organization. It could be you taking a course about something you're interested in, or having that conversation, maybe with a friend, or kind of planning on having the conversation with someone that you want a better relationship with. Those are quieter, bold moments, and they're not this big splash that has to be seen by the world, and I think so. Those are some of my boldest moments working with individuals or organizations. I think it really kind of in the quieter zone of being bold.

Salena Knight 22:33
So what are some of the things that you have done to celebrate the wins? Because I'm always looking for ways to celebrate that aren't just like, yay me, yay too, you know. And occasionally, you know, we, my team, are all remote, so it's not like we can all go out for lunch, but I might one of the things I've done is in our WhatsApp group, is we had, like, one of those little fundraising thermometers when we hit certain goals and we would push it up. But I would love to know, organization wide, but also within yourself. How do you celebrate those wins, big or small?

Speaker 1 23:08
Yeah. So we do it weekly as a team. We'll do Wednesday week, yeah. So wins for the week. And again, everyone just kind of chimes in simple, kind of, you know, poster board and, you know, just stick it on the wall and we start writing. What's interesting is, like, I will forget, like, something that happened on Monday when we're on Friday, because, you know, you get your head down and you're working. And I even forgot we got that contract, or I forgot we got that lead, or I forgot that they called us back, you know, whatever it may be. I was like, that was a win, and I'd already forgotten it. So I think, the wins for the week, and then we keep them, we keep the, you know, the sticky paper up on the wall, and we just kind of create, kind of the volume for the year. And then we look back, and I think, you know, we have an end of year celebration where we're actually looking at all of these different wins over the last 52 weeks. The other thing that we do is once a quarter as a team, we will just pick a space or place to go for what I call the day trip of being creative or innovative, and we'll explore whether it's going to a company and kind of hanging out with them and their leadership and kind of seeing how they they actually operate, or maybe it's actually learning a new skill for us, or maybe it's just like Going having fun, like going white water rafting in Connecticut, like we could do different things, and for us, that's all celebrating wins or being able to learn or connect with new people, which is a nice way to celebrate. For me individually, how I celebrate or how I talk about my wins, I think I try to really speak to kind of the things that I'm doing that have impact or that I feel like I'm spending time on, because I hope they make a difference, even the things I share about myself and my journey where I've, you know, just failed big time or not done, you know, the job I thought I could do. You know, it just didn't go like a planned I'm hoping those. Are moments too that people can learn from. Because I think some of my biggest learnings, not only are they quiet, I think some of them are also through the things that didn't work out or didn't work the way I had planned them to work out, so just kind of keeping them in front of me. And, you know, we both are in a mastermind, and we were asked to write for like, 10 or 15 or 20 minutes?

Salena Knight 25:20
20 minutes? Yeah, oh my gosh. I don't know about our wind. Yeah, I know. I don't know about you, but I'm looking around the room going, am I the only one here who thinks this is a whole bunch of I was like, I don't

Speaker 1 25:32
think I can write for twice, you know? So. And she, she said, Jasmine said you can just write your grocery list. Like, you know, start where we need to start. Yeah. And for me, I started the first 20 minutes was, instead of just, like, journaling, which I'm not, I don't think I'm good at it, like, it's just not how my brain works, but, but I just started writing I am statements, and not like, I am beautiful, I am bold, but like, you know, I deserve to be in the room. I, you know, these are things like, you know, it's like, little imposter syndrome kind of popping up there, you know, like, so, like, I just started writing, you know, those types of things for 20 minutes, and then we got to the wins. It was so interesting because I didn't think I could fill the time I wrote the majority of the time. But things that I felt would like maybe be like, number one, number two, like my book, or my, you know, I created the business, or hit seven figures like, I thought those would be like, in the front, and I actually had to get, like, almost to the end. I was like, Oh, I don't, I don't even have my book written down. I had more things about how I, you know, overcame, you know, something that didn't work out. Or, you know, we lost a six figure contract last year, right the week of Christmas, and I had to figure out how to make that up. And the q1 like, really, really rapidly, while the world is kind of like chilling out for the holidays. And so, like, you know, for me, those types of things were, were really big wins. But I, you know, I just, it was interesting for me to see what even came up as wins first versus, you know, later on in the list. I'm with

Salena Knight 26:59
you. I have my book on my desk. I think the first thing I wrote was I feel so awkward right now,

Speaker 1 27:07
yeah, I definitely, when I we started doing the journaling, I was like, I'm not really sure I can do this right? And I'm like, okay, like, yeah, you can lean start writing. And for me, I came home and I actually handed the notebook to my husband and my daughter. So my daughter and I co founded the company together. I wanted them to see, you know, kind of like the evolution of even my own thought pattern there. And it was just really interesting to share with them. And I was like, it was almost like coming out from school, like, I want to show you my notebook, but it was really fun to kind of just hear their comments back of, like, yeah. Like, you should feel that way, like, you know, we've been saying this to you for a really long time, you know, I'm glad you're kind of coming around to to believing it too, because I think sometimes, especially when you're working through the the bold framework, others could be believing in you even more than you believe in yourself. And I think just realizing that, and realizing that it's a process, and you don't have to do everything overnight. And one small step forward is anything, you know, that's just something that's called progress. And so don't think that they have to be these huge leaps and bounds. And, you know, slam dunks. So, you know, you make a slam dunk by first learning how to dribble the ball. So like, just, just start dribbling forward.

Salena Knight 28:22
I love that. Before we move on to L, I just want to quickly recap the two things that I took away from O, which was own the sticky notes on the wall, writing down the winds and allowing those to accumulate. I think that is gold. Honestly, it is something. It's going to cost you a couple of dollars to get some sticky notes. And even if you have a virtual team, you could do this virtually. But I'm sitting here thinking, I should just get some sticky notes, and as we do our team meetings, I'll write them on the wall for everybody and stick them up. So thank you. That's something I'm going to implement. And then the other thing was, I wasn't taking notes for these. It was the sticky notes. Oh, it was going to visit another person's company and hanging out with their leadership team as a reward for success. It's funny because,

Speaker 1 29:15
yeah, in your business or not, you know, it doesn't have to be totally like. It could be like for us, like we did a maple syrup tour. So we went to, you know, I'm in New England, so we went out to a company that they had an open house, and you could see how they made the maple syrup. You could see what they did. You could see, you know, just the product itself. But for me, it was all about kind of, how they work together, how they overcame adversity, how they still had a really good time, you know, and like, kept things light and fun, and how they really love their job. And for me, that's just always energizing, right? You know, to be around that. But there was so much operations in administration, and at the same time, we were seeing how maple syrup is, me. And how it takes, you know, gallons and gallons and gallons of sap to create one small bottle of maple syrup. So it was like, you know, that's an example of something that's not aligned with healthcare or consulting or events or coaching or a book. It's, it was just to me, it was just all about, you know, how they worked as a team and the things that they did to really create kind of a competitive advantage with others. And you

Salena Knight 30:23
don't even have to do that in a formal setting, like, if you have business networks, you can just say, Hey, I would love to see behind the scenes. You know, can you, can you facilitate a couple of hours for my time? I'm happy to do it the, you know, the other way around. Because what I found from the mastermind, when we all sat down was, even though we had vastly different businesses, we were able to pick things out from other people's businesses and go, Oh, I could implement something similar inside of mine. Oh, look at Oh, this is how they do that. I'd never thought of it that way. That might not work for us exactly, or maybe it will work for us in the exact same way. But being able to see behind the scenes of other people's businesses, because, let's be honest, we were very warts at all. There was some tears. Everyone was very open. And so being able to take that and go, Wow, these people are sharing with me the behind the scenes of their business so that I can be better, so that everybody else in this room can be better. And I think as a business owner, if you surround yourself with people like that, then they're, of course, they're going to be open to be able to show you the behind the scenes. Because if you show them, they show you, and everybody wins. I love that. Thank you.

Speaker 1 31:33
Yeah, yeah. It's kind of layering your learning, right? And I think, you know, that's kind of, it kind of rolls into that next letter.

Salena Knight 31:40
There we go. Perfect segue. Take us to L for learn. Yeah. So

Speaker 1 31:45
I think most of my life I've been from an individual perspective, a growth mindset, type of gal, like I don't, I don't think failure is terminal. I think, you know, I've spoke earlier about learning the most from my failures. Don't like them. I don't really like them to happen a lot, you know. So there's a little bit of perfectionist tendencies that I've realized about myself over the last four years. But I think you know, what's important about them is that you one, don't repeat it, you share it, you learn from it, you grow from it. And I think that's really, really important, because I think anyone can get in a moment of fixed mindset. So an example for me was that I didn't think I could have any other career than a corporate career. That's how I was raised. It's what I was told was stable. It was reliable. All the things that keep you safe, which was a big thing in my head, you know, after such a loss at a young age. So I just wanted to be safe, take care of my family, do those things. So all of a sudden, I'm going to be an entrepreneur and do what you know. And I think also people in my industry didn't understand me either, which kind of honestly or my feelings a bit, because they were just like, Well, how could you leave and what do you mean? You're doing what you know, like 25 years, and you know, why don't you just kind of wait it out or find another role or and I'm just, I'm not a waited out kind of person, either. So I think for me, was learning from what wasn't working, and also that big time that I, you know, I, you know, I created this space so that I could actually heal myself. So it was a big time for me to actually think about wellness, mindset and strategy, and not just strategy all the time. Although I love strategy, you can, you know when, when you get in those spaces of burnout, if that's all you're doing and you're putting your mindset and your wellness on the back burner, those are the things that actually fuel the strategy. Okay, that was my that was my biggest learning. So how do we, I guess, short of getting a notebook and writing it down, how do we work out? What are the things that we learn from? Because we've talked a lot about successes, and we

Salena Knight 33:50
talk about the successes, but we don't necessarily celebrate the successes. And then, of course, at the other end, I call them lessons or learnings, rather than failures, because, you know, that's what we're taught, what we're taught in terms of mindset. But how can we implement this on a daily, weekly like, implement it into into our lives, so that it becomes part of what we do, rather than, Oh, I heard that on the podcast. I'm going to go and write it down and promptly forget about it. Yeah, we

Speaker 1 34:19
actually celebrate them. So when we think about kind of our biggest failure for the month or the biggest failure for the week, is like, what did we think was going to work but didn't, and then what are the top three things we learned from it? Right? So for me, we have a space in the organization where we allow people to just kind of free flow with thoughts or creativity, and myself included, just kind of put them up there. Oh, I'd like to create this. So I think we should do this, or I really think we need this particular product for this particular stakeholder group, and we just put them out there. And I think what we also learned from doing that is every idea we have is not. A good idea, as innovative and creative as we want to be it one, I think it's not about doing more. It's about doing the right thing for your business and doing the things that align with what your priorities are. So a lot of the times, if you're just trying to do kind of a quick learning or kind of understand is one. Let's talk about what failed, what didn't go as planned, and what did we learn from it? Let's just talk about the top three things, whether it was a launch or a particular product, or a relationship with a client, or maybe someone didn't renew and he thought they would like really, kind of doing the, you know, looking at it and really looking at the root causes of some of the things. But just in general, talking about the failure openly is a bold thing within an organization. And I think organizations that openly say that didn't work, and here's what we learned, and here's what we're going to do differently next time those are the types that we're going to organizations that actually move the needle faster and further than ones that don't talk about them. And I think that's just really important, as you know, whether you're a leader, a manager, you know, if you have official title, don't, but talking about those things that didn't go as planned, personally, you can do that as well. So like, if there's, like, you wanted to be healthier, you wanted to have a routine, well, maybe, like, your workout routine was like, you know, I'm going to go to the gym five days a week. Well, that's maybe really hard because of your job, or because of, you know what you're doing to support your family, or maybe you're, you know your children's things come first, and you use not but yourself first. You know, let's, let's start with one day, right? Instead of five. Like, I think I'm all about creating stretch goals and making sure they're challenging enough. But if you're working out 00, to five is going to be really, really difficult, most likely because it's got to be a radical change. So kind of stepping into those changes that you need to make so that become habits is really, really important. And again, those are bold moves, like, if your goal is just move from your desk and walk around the block, is what you want to do each day. Do that don't count 10,000 steps, because it's just like, you will think you have failed because you didn't get that 10,000 steps, but you've walked around the block, which, you know, you you haven't been so just, you know, I always say to begin, begin. And I think it's just willing people for them to start learning by actually trying something, and maybe not, you know, swinging for the fences, like, just get a solid single, get on base, just

Salena Knight 37:24
hit the ball up with the bat,

Unknown Speaker 37:27
yeah, yeah, be there. It's

Salena Knight 37:30
funny. It sounds like the things you're talking about are very similar to what we put into a debrief form, which was, which is, it's very simple form, but it's things like, What didn't we do that we realized, in hindsight, we should have done what worked well, that we didn't expect. What didn't quite go quite so well, like, what would we do in the future? Would we even do this again in the future, or would we do this again, but with these changes and expect a better outcome? And so it's just a few simple questions that when you put them together, it helps you assess, and it helps you assess in the future, because you and I both know in hindsight, we can change the way we thought about a situation. It can either be better or it can be worse. And so you might look back and go, Oh, that that campaign never worked. But when you pull out the debrief form, you realize, well, we only sent three emails, you know, maybe if we had sent 12 emails, it would have been different. Or maybe if we would have run ads to it, it would have been different. Or you could go, oh, that thing. It's so interesting when we talk to people about, you know, where are these money fountains and money leaks in your business? Why? Often what they come up with before digging into the numbers is very, very different to when you dig into numbers and imagery, you're like, well, actually, your best selling product with the best margin is this. And they're like, oh, like, I thought it was this other product. And so, well, if we focus on that the product with the volume and the margin, we can see a great result. Yeah. So it's just taking away what I took away from what you just said was being able to almost debrief a situation is and that's in air quotes for people who aren't watching, allows you to learn from the good things and the not so great things.

Speaker 1 39:13
Yeah, and making space for it, right? So intentionally making space isn't something you just do by happenstance. It's like, we're going to talk about it, like we do it monthly. So, like, in a sense of, kind of, what did, what happened? Because weekly, you should only have things that don't work out weekly. But I'm looking for kind of, what did we try? What did we do? What did we see? You know, 123, times, not just a one off, right? Because sometimes we throw the baby out with the bath water, because, Oh, it didn't work well, like, did we only do it once? Like you said, Well, we were only ran that email list twice, and then we said, that. Did it work? And I think the other thing as entrepreneurs and high achievers is we think, because it didn't get, this a plus, you know, this 100% that it was a failure, at least for myself, like, I'll be like, Wow, I didn't, I didn't get they were. Results, but like you did 50% more than your competitor, or 50% more than you've ever done before, and it's a real number, but you're not really thinking that success, that's also something that happens. So people will say, well, actually, only 2% of the people do X, Y or Z, and we actually hit that number, you know, 5x so I think it helps you also look at maybe something you thought was a failure, actually it becomes a success, or it becomes something to pivot off, to move you forward. So I think they're really neat conversations that we have around those I

Salena Knight 40:33
love that. Thank you. All right, now we're going to design what is it we're going to be to design it? Yes, we have, sorry, I'm just going to quickly recap for those who are listening, because I'm so into this conversation, we're writing down our beliefs and deciding whether they are true or maybe not so true. We are owning how we show up in our work lives, how we show up towards ourselves, how we show up in our personal lives. We're learning from everything that we're doing, and now we're going into design. Yeah. So design

Speaker 1 41:02
really came about because one of the things while I was trying to figure out what's next is I really wanted to be an interior designer. I really thought that'd be the coolest thing. I love making spaces where people feel good and like they have a big hug. I call it earthy luxury, like just coming into a space and feeling like you can just take a full body exhale. And what I learned very quickly, too, is I couldn't make a living, not at 48 not starting at 48 I didn't have, like, the panel of people, I didn't have, you know, I could learn certain things and technical aspects of it, but it wasn't something for me to do at that point in time. What's interesting is, I've pulled a lot of the things that I enjoy around that into my event space, and so I still get to create that full body hug space and the bold retreat or the bold table that I do. But I think the other thing was human design. So part of what I did is I got a coach, and she was an incredible coach, who not only was an entrepreneur herself, but had a way to kind of really think about how you do nourish your mindset, your body and your soul, like kind of, you know, making sure those things are kind of being taken care of. And one of the things, my daughter actually did the Human Design reading first, and I did it, and then then we had my husband do it. So it was so interesting just to see how we are designed. And I've taken every leadership you know, personality test like a disc and a Strengths Finder, and the MBTI and those are all really good. But for me, this just was this additive layer that felt more personal, so like seeing channels of communication, or how I how I thought, or how I would have certain areas of of the way that, you know, I would be closed off, or maybe I'd be more open. I think, interestingly enough, I'm a manifesting generator, so I'm someone who gets things done, who's really beats pretty quickly. Yeah, big picture. That means I need someone who's all about the details, and that's so wonderful, because that's exactly what my daughter is. And I'm just not a details person. I mean, I can get down in there, but you don't want me. Don't want me in

Salena Knight 43:03
there. We we don't want us there. You want us to go. This is where we're going. This is what it's going to look like. Okay, sort out the rest. Yeah, how much money you need, and what else are you going to need? And how are they?

Speaker 1 43:14
Yeah, they have some great questions. Back to you too, like, I think that's always nice too, to kind of like, have this kind of conversation where you're volley, you know, volleying, kind of the the what ifs, and did you think about and I was like, Nope, I just saw a really great idea. Let's dig into that, because I didn't think about that particular detail. It just sounded like really cool. We should do it. And so I think that was something I learned about myself. I already knew that I like to be in smaller groups to power up. And I don't mean like, I can't do a presentation and can't talk, and I mean, I have my own podcast, I do speaking and all those types of things. It's more so just like, where do I, where do I really get my energy? And then really, specifically, because of my type four, six, making sure that I'm around people who give me energy versus pull it, because if I stay in the space of pull too long, it really starts to chip away at me really fast. And so I think that's also something that I knew, but it just kind of, you know, was, you know, really for me, kind of in bold and kind of blinking about how and who I spend my time around. Because again, go back to where I was talking earlier, where I was doing things just to make sure everyone else was happy or it was convenient for them. And it could have been for me, another place where I was losing a lot of energy because I wasn't really aligned with, you know, how I really got my energy? So that was really, really important. So those were two big pieces of design. And then I think for me, just being able to create really your next steps, like you own your next steps, all based on all your learning. You've already understood your beliefs, but now it's like, up to you to, like, put that pen in your hand and start writing. Because it isn't someone else's job to, like, create your life. Life that you want to live, you have to actually be intentional and take action. I think that was something really cool. Someone asked me last week on a podcast, is, what's the difference between dreaming and being delusional? And I said, Well, there's always this, like, fine line, right? Be, you know, like someone who's super smart between someone who's like, eccentric and crazy is a fine line. And I think for me, what it was was, if you're dreaming, that means you're doing you're taking action. You're not just like, waiting for something to happen, like, oh, someday I'll be a millionaire, and you just kind of sit there and kick back and you know it's going to happen, I'm going to manifest it. No, actually, you got to take some action. And

Salena Knight 45:37
that doesn't necessarily mean going and buying a lottery ticket. That's not the action that you're talking I

Speaker 1 45:42
think that's five, you know, I have bought a lot our ticket, and I think it is a little delusional to think that's the way I'm going to, like, you know, you know, provide for my family, or that's the way, you know, I'm going to, you know, be able to do what I want to do with my business. It's taking action. So I think that's really, to me, the design is really taking all those things and believe own learn and then getting it pen to paper and saying, here's the next step, here's the blueprint for what we want to do as individuals or as organizations.

Salena Knight 46:12
Do you find that the design part is the hardest for many people, being able to write down what it is they actually want, and the steps they're going to take to get there.

Speaker 1 46:26
I think for me, I what I've witnessed is that the belief part is where people actually spend a lot of their time and they should, because ultimately, if you don't get that right, I think other things can either kind of go left or potentially be off track, because if you don't understand the beliefs of your organization or the self belief that you have or or maybe lacking, you won't be able to understand what to own or what not to own, or what to create, you know, from you know, failures or things that didn't work, because you'll be stuck in perfectionism. You'll be stuck in imposter syndrome. You'll be stuck in these places of looking outward versus looking inward. I think when they get to design, what I see is like, people actually kind of light up and in the you know, you'll you'll see it in the book. But there's a you know, blueprint and a space and a template that you kind of like put all these things that you've just worked on, your beliefs, your understanding of your culture, understanding of you know the priorities within an organization, understanding your values, and are you aligned with them? And then you get to this space where you're designing. It becomes like this creative moment for teams, and it also, I've seen this dialog between departments or between people within a team that gets sparked that never was, I think, possible before, because it feels safer to have the conversation about what could be possible versus what was expected.

Salena Knight 47:52
I love that. And maybe one of the issues that I see is quite often, when we're working with a business, we're asking them, like, what is it you want from your business? What do you want your life to look like, like? If, if we could make wave a magic wand, what would the perfect life and business and family look like? And a lot of people can't answer that. But now, having talked to you, maybe one of the reasons they can't think about that is they're not letting themselves think about that because of those beliefs that they have.

Speaker 1 48:24
You have a whole bunch of what ifs versus even ifs, yeah, and this is, you know, one of one of my colleagues. It was, she was talking about reframes. And this was one of her reframes. It might be someone else's, but it was one she uses with, with her speaking is, you know, we, we usually, what if I fail? Well, what if I don't get that client? What if I, you know, can't figure out how to do X Y Z with my business? What if I, you know, there's just, like, we constantly are doing that, and it was like, well, even if it doesn't work, I'm going to learn. Even if I can't do it myself, I can find someone to help me. You know, even if I don't make x, y, z amount this month, I still can create a plan to make it up. So it's like, even if becomes almost the same as yet, you know, like when we say, I'm not a blank yet, I'm not healthy yet, I'm not as you know, haven't lost a weight yet. It's like you're on your way. So it's like, really thinking again, going back to you believe it's how you talk to yourself, because whatever you say to yourself is what you're pulling yourself toward. And I have a slide I usually put up, but it, you know, it takes the same amount to worry as it does to believe, yep, so believe you can, you know, don't sit around and perseverate on something that you're actually probably pulling into your world, because you're really fixated on this could go wrong and this could happen. Don't do that because I think, for me, that's just drawing it in. It's like, what can you accomplish? And on your way, you're going to learn lots of things, and that's through your successes and your failures. By taking the steps towards it.

Salena Knight 49:57
I love it. I love it. Okay, can you. Maybe give me some examples of what bold means to other people, because I know you asked this question on your on your podcast, and I'm sure the answers are very, very different. But what are some of the what are some of the answers that people have given you that have really connected?

Speaker 1 50:15
Yeah, there's a really cool quiz in the book, and it kind of you, you actually you take the quiz and you define what your bold persona is. So we took all 250 definitions that we have so far, and we kind of put them in the blender and created kind of the title for them. So it could be, you know, you could be, you know, focused on being, you know, a bold warrior, which is really like someone that no matter what, you're going to keep moving you're going to move forward, you're going to step into the next thing that you will want to do, but it's not going to be guaranteed. And that's really, I kind of fit into that particular one. There's other spaces and places where it's about, you know, being, you know someone who listens, someone who listens deeply, and has an understanding kind of of the world around them, and because they have that skill of being someone who absorbs and listens, they're able to do things in a more bold manner because they're they're kind of armed with data that maybe some of us that don't listen as well are not. So I think you know that those are two examples. I think the one thing that every definition has in common is that bold is a choice. And I think that's really, really important for people to hear so no one, no one should be forced to be bold or to make a bold move. It's you're going to do that. And I think, you know, being very thoughtful and pragmatic is a big part of being bold too. Because I think, you know, there's a myth of bold as carelessness and riskiness and brashness and rudeness. And I heard someone say that earlier in a conference that I went to and spoke at, and I said, Well, I think your experience with it doesn't sound like a very positive one, but like, if you kind of reframe that into something of like doing something new that no one's done, or speaking for someone who might not have a voice for themselves, and you speak up and say, That's not cool. You know, you need to stop. And probably everyone listening, you know, your listeners probably have stood up for someone who didn't have their own voice. So those are some of the, really the personas that I think come out. And someone may say, Well, I'm all of them. Well, you could be all different shades of it at some point, but you're going to have one that kind of comes up to the top and one that you kind of really are, you know, you might be the peacemaker. You might be someone that listens. You might be kind of like this wares, person that's gonna, like, go forward. You know, for me, in my roles, I've always been the one that kind of jumps into the deep end and like, Okay, let's get at the Yeah, the house is on fire. Okay, let's actually, let's find an extinguisher, let's get the dang thing out, and let's understand kind of what happened so it doesn't happen again. And so for me, that I've always kind of stepped into those situations, so that's kind of why I relate to the warrior so much. But definitely check out the quiz, because I think it's fun. Everyone loves the quiz, and you kind of see your persona and how it comes out. But I think the biggest thing that I've learned from all the guests, incredible guests, is it's a choice, and it's yours to make, and it's yours to make when you're ready to make it, no one should force you, and you shouldn't be comparing yourself to anyone else's bold journey, because yours is yours alone.

Salena Knight 53:16
I love clearly you are the consummate podcast host because you did the perfect segue in there about your book. So is the book out yet? I know I got a bit of an advanced class

Speaker 1 53:26
in a month, yeah. So it's less than a month. So yeah. So it comes out November 19. Okay, so excited to have it out there. If you pre order it now, you get a whole bunch of goodies in advance, and I'm super excited to share it with the world. And time is going really, really fast now that we're getting so close to the pub day.

Salena Knight 53:44
Oh, fantastic. The book is called Be bold today. The author is you, Lee Burgess. We will pop a link in the show notes. If people want to pre order or order. I'm not quite sure when this one is going live, but if you want to get your hands on that, I am lucky to have a an advanced copy. I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but it is literally sitting here on my desk.

Speaker 1 54:03
Is in there. So check them out. Yeah, I will, even if you just go to the quiz today to go look at

Salena Knight 54:08
I promise I will get around to reading. I'm just finishing up another book, and I can't do the reading two books at once. I can't either. So my daughter can do four books at once. I can't do that. I have to finish one to move to the next. Yeah.

Speaker 1 54:21
So same here. I My daughter at least reads four books at the same time. I have to stick with one so I finish it. Otherwise I would have like things not unfinished, for sure.

Salena Knight 54:30
Thank you so much for that. And if people want to check you out, where should they go? Just

Speaker 1 54:35
my website's the best place to go. Lee burgess.com and you'll see all the things that we're doing, and you can sign up for different pieces and parts of what we do and stay in the know,

Salena Knight 54:44
fantastic. We'll pop that in the show notes. Thank you so much. I have taken away some key, three key things that we are going to implement in our business, and I'm sure that people listening have taken away their own little snippets that they can implement. And that is my goal on this podcast. Is to give you exposure to people, likely, who can help you change your life and be bolder, even if it is just in a teeny, tiny little increment, take that first step, turn up with the bat. You don't even have to hit up the home run. You just have to turn up with the bat. And that is the end of my sports analogies, because I know nothing about sports. Thank you so much, Lee. Thank you for having me. So that's a wrap. I'd love to hear what insight you've gotten from this episode and how you're going to put it into action. If you're a social kind of person. Follow me at the Selena night and make sure to leave a comment and let me know. And if this episode made you think a little bit differently, or gave you some inspiration, or perhaps gave you the kick that you needed to take action, then please take a couple of minutes to leave me a review on your platform of choice, because the more reviews the show gets the more independent retail and E commerce stores just like yours that we can help to scale. And when that happens, it's a win for you, a win for your community and a win for your customers. I'll see you on the next episode.

As the founder and CEO of her own company, Leigh has leveraged her innovative spirit, keen business acumen, and relentless drive for success to impact the lives of countless professionals and entrepreneurs.

After 20+ years working in healthcare and education, Leigh founded and launched Bold Industries Group, Inc. (BIG) in 2020. BIG is a corporation that encompasses her passion for business consulting, coaching, and curated events. With an eye towards driving performance, Leigh’s unique consulting services provide a comprehensive blend of strategy, agile design thinking, and bold business moves. She also helps individuals achieve the maximum potential of their lives through coaching, enabling them to create a strong personal foundation to bring them closer to success and a meaningful lifestyle.

Nothing beats baseball at Fenway Park in the summer watching the Red Sox.SPORTSI find joy in music and have been to over 300 concerts and think shopping at a vinyl store is a great way to spend a Saturday.​ ​MUSICI have four of the goofiest and cutest puppies in the world- Maple, an English Cream Retriever, Alvin, a Bichon-Poodle mix, and Yogi and Bear, Bernese Mountain Dogs.​DogsBy hosting signature events such as The Bold Table and The Bold Retreat, she cultivates a genuine, supportive community. Leigh also launched The Bold Lounge podcast with the intention of amplifying the bold journeys of others. The Bold Lounge has been recognized as one of the top 10% of podcasts shared globally and is in the top 25% of followed podcasts on Spotify.

Recognized for her groundbreaking approach to personal and organizational performance, Leigh harnesses the power of strategy, mindset, and wellness to achieve optimal results. This unique blend of elements forms the cornerstone of her signature Believe-Own-Learn-Design (BOLD) Framework that she uses with organizations and individuals for advanced agile performance.

Leigh is also a regular contributor to Forbes, Fast Company, and Entrepreneur. She was honored as a one of Success Magazine’s 50 Women of Influence and one of Success Magazine’s 125 Leaders Making a Difference. Her new book Be Bold Today: Unleash Your Potential, Master Your Mindset, and Achieve Success, which is all about how to apply the BOLD Framework to your own life, will be distributed by Simon & Schuster in fall 2024.

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