How To Create Content Without The Hassle



Jenn Donovan

Jenn Donovan, marketing thought leader, change maker, coach and mentor for small businesses, international keynote speaker, best selling author and podcaster (she has 3!). Founder of Social Media and Marketing Australia, founder of the extremely successful community Facebook group - Buy From a Bush Business (currently 367,000 members) and the Co-Founder of Spend With Us - Australia's answer to Amazon but only for rural and regional small businesses. Jenn takes her clients from Invisible to Invincible using strategic marketing principles and is also a community leader, and a community believer and is on a mission to ensure the lost art of Human to Human marketing and community are seeded firmly in everyone’s marketing strategy. Jenn lives on a farm in the Riverina of NSW, with husband Mr Farmer and their 3 children. Jenn has 10 chooks, 2 peacocks, 4 guinea fowl, 1 dog and 1 cat and several pet lambs!

Ugh, creating content for social media is SUCH drain – are you with me on this?

Well, if you’re anything like me, then today’s episode with Jenn Donovan is going to help you avoid the hassle and create content with ease (ok, maybe not ease, but less struggle!)

** The 5X Framework Accelerator Program is now open for application. Click here to know more.

NAME: Ep 377 Marketing Jenn Donovan – How To Create Content Without The Hassle_audio.mp3
DATE: 2023-03-31

Selena Knight and Jen Donovan discuss the importance of social media in retail businesses. They explain that the most effective types of posts are the ones that create a sense of urgency and fear of missing out (FOMO). Other effective posts to engage customers are funny memes, quotes and jokes. Additionally, they advocate for showing up and showing your face, as people tend to buy from people they trust. Finally, they advise businesses to create content that makes them happy, as this will be reflected in their posts.

Jen Donovan is a marketer who loves her work. She started her career in law, but after buying a bricks and mortar business with a friend, she decided to make it into a good business and hired a business coach who taught her to love marketing. Since then, Jen has been traveling and talking to anyone who will listen about the power of marketing. Her goal is to make marketing a priority for any business owner she talks to, as she believes it can make a huge difference.

The conversation discussed how business owners often get stuck working in the business, rather than on the business, and how this can lead to ineffective marketing strategies. The speakers discussed how marketing should aim to make people aware of the business and encourage them to want the product or services. They stressed that this cannot be achieved with occasional social media posts or once a month emails. They concluded by emphasizing the importance of insights and analytics in order to make sure that marketing strategies are effective and reaching the right people.

Marketing is an essential aspect of small business ownership, yet many business owners tend to avoid it. A survey conducted last year by a group of business coaches and marketers in Australia showed that 64% of people found marketing overwhelming, 83% had little to no marketing plan, and 55% said they would be willing to spend more money on marketing in 2023. This is likely because marketing is seen as an intimidating and difficult process. However, it is important to take responsibility for one’s marketing, as it is the way one communicates with potential customers and builds their business.


0:00:00 “Uncovering the Power of Social Media: Strategies for Creating Engaging Content and Increasing Sales”

0:02:40 “Interview with Jen Donovan: Exploring the Power of Marketing”

0:04:16 “The Importance of Effective Marketing Strategies for Business Growth”

0:06:14 “The Importance of Marketing for Small Business Owners”

0:08:03 “Creating a Marketing Plan: Overcoming Overwhelming Statistics and Keeping Up with the Joneses”

0:10:00 Exploring Strategic Marketing Strategies for Business Growth

0:12:47 “Marketing Strategies for Attracting Customer Royalty”

0:16:09 Exploring Social Media Insights: How to Reach the Right Audience

0:17:28 Exploring Strategies for Engaging Buyers on Social Media

0:19:47 “Exploring Engagement Strategies for Small Businesses: Leveraging Human Factors for Brand Awareness and Sales”

0:21:53 Conversation Summary: Building Community Through Engaging Content

0:23:20 Analysis of Instagram Live Performance: A Case Study

0:26:36 “The Benefits of Structured Live Streaming: A Case Study”

0:28:04 “The Benefits of Doing an Instagram Live: A Case Study”

0:30:42 “The Benefits of Instagram Live: How to Show Up, Create Curiosity, and Repurpose Content”

0:34:59 “Analyzing Your Business Analytics to Increase Engagement and Sales”

0:38:41 “Exploring the Benefits of Email Marketing and Data-Driven Strategies”

0:40:21 “The Benefits of Utilizing Google Shopping for Your Business”

0:42:16 Conversation Summary: Strategies for Growing an Online Business

0:45:10 “Making Content Creation Easier: Tips for Increasing Engagement on Social Media Platforms”

0:47:45 Reflection on the Benefits of Making Shopping Easier for Customers

0:49:13 Reflection on Social Media Strategy: Setting Out to Get More Customers

0:50:37 Reflection on Effective Marketing Strategies for Small Businesses

0:52:35 Conversation Summary: Strategies for Increasing Volume and Engagement on Social Media

0:54:12 Interview with Jen Donovan: Leveraging LinkedIn for Retail and Ecommerce Stores

0:00:00 Salena Knight: Is there a type of post that seems to stand out, that does seem to resonate with buyers?

0:00:06 Jenn Donovan: The FOMO post. So fear of missing out, there’s a sale. This has just landed the unboxing that creates that curiosity that then brings traffic to your website or followers that hopefully potentially turn into buyers. I would say there’s two main ones. The first one you can’t do more of, and it’s basically the funny things. The memes, the quotes, the jokes. They’re great to have and they definitely form part of a really good engagement strategy. But just because they’re getting the most likes and comments doesn’t mean you can do more of them. But the second one, which I think really does work well as both an engagement brand awareness and a sales strategy, is you showing up, showing your face.

0:00:53 Jenn Donovan: People really do buy from people they know, like, and trust.

0:01:00 Salena Knight: Hey there and welcome to the Bringing Business to Retail podcast. If you’re looking to get more sales, more customers, master your marketing, and ultimately take control of your retail or ecommerce business, then you’re in the right place. I’m Selena Knight, a retail growth strategist and multi award winning store owner whose superpower is uncovering exactly what your business requires to move to the next level.

0:01:31 Salena Knight: I’ll provide you with the strategies, the tools, and the insight you need to scale your store. All you need to do is take action. Ready to get started? Hey there and welcome to today’s episode of the Bringing Business to Retail podcast. Now, if you’ve been around for a while, well, even just three months, you’ll know that I did a little stint where I went live on Instagram, not my most favorite platform in the world, to see if it made any difference.

0:02:04 Salena Knight: And so today, not only will I share some of the behind the scenes, but I also have Jen Donovan on the show to talk all about social media. Do you really need to show up what you can do with some of the stats that are behind the scenes that, let’s be honest, you’re not looking at? And also how to create how to create content or creating content that makes you happy? Because that was my biggest issue is I really didn’t want to point and dance. I love dancing. Not very good at it. So how do you create content that you enjoy doing but also gets traction and appeases the algorithm?

0:02:40 Jenn Donovan: Gods.

0:02:41 Salena Knight: So, hey, Jen, welcome to the show.

0:02:43 Jenn Donovan: Thank you so much. Pretty excited. What a big mouthful. We’re going to be here for ages chatting. It’s going to be so good.

0:02:49 Salena Knight: We’ll be here until I get to the point where I just cough incessantly because I currently have COVID. We record this, but that’s okay because I’m going to let you do most of the talking. So if people don’t know you her, tell us a little bit about yourself.

0:03:04 Jenn Donovan: Thank you. So I’m Jen Donovan, and I live, breathe, talk, I don’t know, just have nightmares and sweet dreams. All about marketing. Basically I love marketing. My love for marketing came from being a retailer. So I used to have a bricks and mortar business in a small regional area in Victoria and basically my best friend and I had way too much wine to drink, decided to throw in our corporate jobs and buy ourselves a business and we played shop.

0:03:33 Jenn Donovan: And then about three months in, we’re like, make this into a really good business. This is actually really quite good. And so I kind of started to think, well, how do we do that? So I hired myself a business coach and he basically taught me to love marketing and I haven’t stopped loving it since. So I sort of started my career in law, but then went to retail. And now for about the last six years or so, I’ve just been traveling around and talking to anyone who will listen about the power of marketing. I’m all about making marketing a priority. That’s my end goal for any business owner that I talk to because I know that it can really make a difference.

0:04:16 Jenn Donovan: And yet so many business owners get stuck working in the business, not on the business. And therefore marketing becomes the, oh my gosh, I haven’t done anything for two weeks. I’m just going to throw something up on social media and call that marketing, which it’s better than nothing, but it’s really not the end goal of what marketing can look like and how it can help you grow your business.

0:04:38 Salena Knight: So we say the marketing pillar is getting people to know that you exist and getting them to want what you sell because it’s all good and well if people know you exist, but if they don’t want what you sell, kind of what’s the point? Or if they want what you sell and they don’t know that you exist, again, we kind of have a bit of a problem here. So I love that what you’re saying is what I’m saying, which is you’ve got to tell people that you’re out there and you have to get people to want what you sell. And that’s probably not going to happen if you’re occasionally throwing something up on social media, or if you’re sending out a once a month email because you’re not front of mind for your customers.

0:05:18 Jenn Donovan: No. And even worse, if you’re throwing that one social media post up on a platform they’re not even on or in a place at a time and a day that they’re not even on there, or you’re sending out an email to tick that box, but no one actually opens the email or everyone that you send it to opens it really well on mobile, but it looks terrible on mobile because you build it to look good on desktop.

0:05:41 Salena Knight: So there’s all that.

0:05:42 Jenn Donovan: And I know we’re going to talk about insights and with analytics and that sort of thing. But for me, I say that marketing is everything because marketing is the way you pick up the phone, it’s the way you respond to that social media post. And if you are lucky or unlucky enough to live in a small community like I do, it’s actually the way you front up at the supermarket and the way you talk to the person at the fish and chip shop and everything like that. Because everything you do and say says something about you regardless of whether or not you meant it to.

0:06:14 Jenn Donovan: So for me, unfortunately, as a small business owner, when you are the owner, the buck stops with you and marketing pretty much never stop.

0:06:23 Salena Knight: So why do you think so many people avoid it? And I kind of have a double barreled question here, which is I find that people tend to fall into two camps. One is the I just kind of do it when I remember like we were talking about earlier, and the other people are actually spending money on marketing because they know that they should be spending on marketing, but it’s not doing anything. So why do you think I guess maybe a better question is why do you think that business owners don’t take responsibility for their marketing?

0:06:55 Jenn Donovan: Yeah, look, I was lucky enough to do a really good collaboration last year with some other amazing marketers and business coaches in the Australian space and we did the Big small business survey and some of the stats that came out there, especially through the marketing questions, were really quite astonishing. Like, I think it was something like 64% of people said marketing is overwhelming, 83% of people said they had little to no marketing plan.

0:07:26 Jenn Donovan: And then quite astonishingly, about 55% of them said that they would spend more money on marketing in 2023. So to me, my head just kind of exploded at those three stats because A, it’s overwhelming because you don’t have a plan and what are you going to spend your money on because you haven’t got a plan. So I guess, oh my goodness, you’re just like throwing bad money after bad money if you don’t have a plan. As to what we all have a current state and we all have a desired state. We all want to get somewhere in our business, but without a plan, it’s awfully hard to get there.

0:08:03 Jenn Donovan: So I think a lot of people don’t do marketing because they find it overwhelming, and yet they find it overwhelming because they don’t have a plan. I also think that in the digital age, they probably follow far too many people and they have far too many voices saying do this, do that, do this. And I know myself, I follow other people and then the algorithm serves me out. Complete strangers who might be telling you to do stuff. And sometimes I just want to shout at them and say, no, don’t tell.

0:08:35 Salena Knight: People to do that.

0:08:39 Jenn Donovan: Everyone’s just gone, just throwing the baby out now because now there’s a new thing for me to do.

0:08:44 Salena Knight: And it’s definitely that kind of the comparison it is versus Keeping Up with the Joneses. It’s like, oh, well, they’re doing that. It’s like but they have a team of people who are filming them and who are cutting their videos and doing you don’t have that. So can we just break it down? Let’s assume that the people who are listening understand marketing, but they don’t have a plan. Where do you get them to start?

0:09:08 Jenn Donovan: Yeah, that’s a really big question and a great question, of course. So where do you get them to start? For me, it’s kind of like, why are you doing this? Where do you want to take your business? Like, I do a lot of private coaching, and so people will come to me and say, I need a marketing strategy. Jen, can you work with me on a marketing strategy? And then in the first ten minutes or so, we find out there’s actually only probably room for about 10% growth with what they want. So really they need to not spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on marketing to make 10% more, but need to decide, okay, well, if I grow my business more, that means I need another team member. What does that look like? And so on and so forth. So some people think that they just need to do more marketing, but maybe it needs to be more strategic marketing than just doing more.

0:10:00 Jenn Donovan: I suppose when I start with my clients, I start with where do you want to go? How much growth do you want to see in your business? And then, unfortunately, we start with the basics. Who is your who? Who’s your ideal client, and where are they hanging out, and what do you want to be famous for? They’re the three key questions if you can get those right. And just like you say said before, I think TikTok was a perfect example. Clubhouse was another perfect example.

0:10:27 Jenn Donovan: Everyone’s on it. I’ve got to get on it. It’s just like, do you really need to get on it?

0:10:37 Salena Knight: I think it Myspaced itself out.

0:10:39 Jenn Donovan: Think it’s still a thing. But I don’t think that people are on it like they have been. I tried to get on it about six months ago, and it was just all so confusing. I couldn’t find anyone that I knew. So that was the end. I sort of deleted the app and moved on, but again, created FOMO and everyone wanted to be on it and didn’t really think about the strategy as to why they were on it. The same with TikTok.

0:11:03 Jenn Donovan: What’s the strategy behind being on something like TikTok now? Your audience, even now, I think you.

0:11:10 Salena Knight: Just dropped a knowledge bomb that you don’t even realize that you just said. Do you want to know what it was?

0:11:17 Jenn Donovan: I really do.

0:11:18 Salena Knight: You said, I went to clubhouse and I searched and there was no one there that I knew. That, to me, is mind blowing. Not that they weren’t on clubhouse, but that in and of itself is a really good way for you to just do a superficial look at if the people you know aren’t there, why the heck are you there? Like, sure, there’s going to be this really small window of opportunity where maybe your competitors have not gotten on there, or maybe your customers are not on there and maybe there’s something to exploit. But let’s be honest, if we’re talking about something that’s been around for a little while, if you can’t find people you know on there, don’t waste your time.

0:12:03 Jenn Donovan: Yeah. And my number one way of finding out whether your audience are on there is show up. Don’t be posting tips or tricks or a beautiful quote or anything like that. Go live, do some videos. Don’t do some lives, but still do some videos. Put your face up there, tell people who you are, what you do, and see whether people are interacting with you. The right people are interacting with you. Not Mum, not Annie Joan, not your sister, but the people who actually might help you build your business and become buyers, referrals superfans part of that community that you are supposed to be building.

0:12:47 Salena Knight: So you started off by telling us that when we’re looking at a marketing plan, it’s just understanding who are the people we want to attract. And I think we need to go even a little bit deeper there. It’s not everybody, it’s not even probably the majority of your customers. It’s this really small percentage of we call them customer royalty. Like the people who are going to spend up big because if you can attract them, they will bring the friends or the aspirational people will follow you as well.

0:13:13 Salena Knight: So you’re saying, know who your who is it’s not everyone. Know what you want. Because if you don’t know what you want, how are you ever going to know if you’re going to get there and where they hang out? Is that the three things you said? Have I got that right?

0:13:27 Jenn Donovan: Yeah. And what you want to be famous for?

0:13:29 Salena Knight: And what you want to be famous?

0:13:32 Jenn Donovan: I think not kardashian famous. We’re not kardashians here. But what do you want to be known for? Because I want to be known to be known as a marketing strategist. I want people to think, I need a plan, I need a strategy, I need to talk to Jen Donovan, but in that as well, because I’m a rural girl, I want to be known in the rural and regional areas for doing this. The people that I feel just don’t get the attention that other bigger areas get.

0:14:06 Jenn Donovan: What about you? What about yours?

0:14:09 Salena Knight: So I want to be famous for helping people turn the job that they’ve built into a profitable business that works for them. And I guess part of that is the way that I do that. So I’m not a coach. In fact, I literally just got off a call with our coaching team and was saying, I don’t know, coach questions. Like, coach questions would be like, so what is making you do that thing that you’re doing? And I’m just like, here are three things you need to do, just choose one and get it done.

0:14:38 Salena Knight: That’s not my brain space. So I don’t ever call myself a coach because if I was the coaching company, like, the coaching population would be like shooting me down with flaming arrows. So not a coach. Definitely a growth strategist, definitely helping people to move to the next level. And our three values in our business are bold, knowledgeable and insightful. So hopefully those three things are what come across when I’m out there doing my thing.

0:15:06 Salena Knight: We talk a bit of smack. It’s like we give you a bit of a kick up the butt. We just tell it like it is. And there are other people who are fluffy and are your best friends and they probably have loads more followers than I do because everyone wants to hang out in a place where it makes them feel all warm and fuzzy. But actually, does that get you the results that you want? So I guess we’re very results driven. All of my products come with a money back guarantee, so hopefully that comes across there’s a lot.

0:15:35 Jenn Donovan: Let us know you’re listening and let us know. But for me, if I have a client or a workshop or a keynote, I want them to walk away with the thought of, I’m going to make marketing a priority. If that is the thing that they walk away with, going, I’m going to make this a priority, I’ve done my job. That can help really change communities, change lives, because I don’t know, I’m a little bit biased when it comes to marketing, but marketing is everything and I really think it’s the key to growing a business.

0:16:09 Jenn Donovan: I know there’s lots of other keys there, but like you say, people need to know what you sell and you need to get that in front of the right people as well.

0:16:19 Salena Knight: Yeah. So one of the things we’re going to talk about is stats. And I feel like the comment you just said then is the perfect segue for getting things in front of the right people. So if we’re looking at social media insights, maybe can you let’s just go with Facebook and Instagram. I know that there are people on TikTok, but I also know that the people who are listening are generally 30 plus 30 to 50.

0:16:40 Salena Knight: Been in business a little while. You’re probably not hanging out on TikTok, and if you are, it’s only because you got the young people who work for you who are doing it. So let’s concentrate on the two big ones, facebook and Instagram. What kinds of insights should we be looking at?

0:16:55 Jenn Donovan: Yeah, I guess some of the biggest ones that I get asked is when should I post? It’s just like, well, I can tell you the times that I should post, but I can’t tell you the times that you can post, but the analytics can. If you log on to your insights, it will tell you when the best times are to post. When your audience is most online. If you go live on Instagram, it doesn’t work on Facebook that I’m aware of. As of about two weeks ago, it wasn’t working. But literally, if you click the button to go live on Instagram, it will tell you how many followers are actually online at that time.

0:17:28 Jenn Donovan: So 300 of your followers are online at 09:00 on a Thursday night. Perfect time for you to go live 06:00 in the morning when there’s three. Maybe not, or maybe they’re the best three, but that’s knowing your audience as well, of course. So that’s probably one of the biggest questions I get asked is when should I post? What to post? Again, you can go back over your analytics, both on Facebook and Instagram and see what the audience that you’re attracting is interacting with the most.

0:18:01 Jenn Donovan: What are the best posts that are performing for you?

0:18:04 Salena Knight: What do you find?

0:18:05 Jenn Donovan: There is a caveat.

0:18:06 Salena Knight: I’m just going to jump in. You work with a lot of retail and ecommerce people. What do you find? I know it’s different for everyone, but is there a type of post that seems to stand out, that does seem to resonate with buyers?

0:18:21 Jenn Donovan: Yeah, look, with buyers, I would say with buyers, it’s more the FOMO post. So fear of missing out, there’s a sale. This has just landed the unboxing that creates that curiosity that then brings traffic to your website. So for buyers, that sort of content or followers that hopefully potentially turn into buyers. Like, that’s the whole objective of being on these platforms. I would say there’s two main ones. The first one you can’t do more of because you’re just not allowed to. And it’s basically the funny thing.

0:19:03 Jenn Donovan: The memes, the quotes, the jokes, they’re great to have and they definitely form part of a really good engagement strategy. But just because they’re getting the most likes and comments doesn’t mean you can do more of them because it’s not really brand aligned. It’s not really going to turn into more sales for you. We’re just really dealing with damaging metrics of like, that real got 88,000 views. It’s like, yeah, how much traffic did it drive to your website? How many sales did you see? Is that sort of peaked? But the second one, which I think really does work well as both an engagement brand awareness and a sales strategy, is you showing up, doing these live videos, doing videos, showing your face.

0:19:47 Jenn Donovan: People really do buy from people they know, like and trust. And I think this is the advantage small business owners have over these big brands. Like, unless you’ve got the marketing budget of the Golden Arches, for instance, the one thing that you can do different to them is show up as the business owner, build that trust, build that following who really like you. I think the businesses that do that really well find that the money follows.

0:20:15 Salena Knight: I’ve noticed that with a few of the brands that I work with, where the owner is not in the store so much, even just having the people who were in the store go live, customers start to develop an affinity for Jane or Emma or Sally or whoever. They actually look forward to those different videos. So I do like that concept of behind the scenes, but I don’t think you can behind the scenes and being the face, but I don’t think you can rule it out, even if you’ve moved past working in the business. Or maybe you’ve got multiple locations being able to tap into that human factor.

0:20:51 Salena Knight: Even if it’s not you that makes.

0:20:53 Jenn Donovan: Because everybody is different.

0:20:55 Salena Knight: Like, some people are a bit sassy, and some people are a bit analytical, and some people are a little bit quieter, and some people are very outgoing or they dress really brightly. And I almost think that having that diversity can actually bring more people in because it means they’re not having to relate to just one person. If you’re in that point where that’s me, I still turn up in my business. But if you’re past that, you can actually leverage having those individual personalities in your business and getting them to go live.

0:21:24 Jenn Donovan: Yeah, absolutely. And it doesn’t even have to be live. Like, one of the best posts I’ve done this week is just a bit of a selfie of me and my husband. We live on a farm. He came in at lunchtime. It was like 35 degrees out there. He’s gone to sleep in my office, so I’m trying to work, and he’s like, so I’ve just taken a bit of a selfie of me with a pair of socks on the floor, and I’m kind of like, I’ve got hubby’s. Come in. He’s now snoring. I can’t do any recording. I’ve got to get a podcast out, basically.

0:21:53 Jenn Donovan: And people loved that. They were like they interacted with that. Would that drive more sales? Probably not. Would that drive more interaction? Yes, probably. Well, it definitely did. People were commenting. They were laughing, and I got to comment back. So now that threads like 30 or 40 comments long, because obviously if someone comments, you’ve got to go and comment back and start that conversation with people.

0:22:18 Jenn Donovan: So that’s community building, I guess, at the end of the day. So it just has to be video. But I think if you haven’t shown up online for a little while and you do a post and it’s kind of like three things that you don’t know about me. I guarantee you it would be one of the best posts you do that month or that week or that year if you haven’t done it in.

0:22:39 Salena Knight: I have not done that post. I’ll go and try that post.

0:22:43 Jenn Donovan: I know that I’ve done it a couple of times. A couple of my things that I’ve said, I don’t like coffee. Well, the coffee people come out and they’re like full of attack. Like, oh my God, how do you cope without coffee? Coffee people are really into their coffee and don’t like people saying that. And the other thing is, I’m a justice of the piece, and people are like, how did you become a justice of the peace? So it creates that conversations of, I guess where I’ve come from and what I’ve been doing and things like that. But I guess they’ll be you. I’d be really interested because you said at the very start that you did a thing where you showed up on Instagram. What did you find out? What did the analytics tell you?

0:23:20 Salena Knight: So I’ll be honest, I’ve not really looked at the back end of the analytics, but I can tell you, as in what’s inside the social platforms, probably.

0:23:29 Jenn Donovan: Because I was a little bit scared.

0:23:30 Salena Knight: To know if it was a complete flop. But I can tell you the important metrics to me, which is going live. What happened? So I went live. I was going to go live for 30 days. When I made this commitment. I was at the gym all very sweaty. You can go and find that one. And I had been listening to someone on somebody else’s podcast. It was like an ask me anything replay whinging about making money. And it really upsets me when people have excuses for not making money because there are simple things you can do. Like you could post a product on Instagram, right? You could make money.

0:24:12 Salena Knight: So I kind of went on and got a bit of a ranty pants that day and went, I’ve decided I’m going to go live on Instagram because I’m terrible at Instagram. Facebook, I’m not so bad, but Instagram, I just never look good enough. Like, I don’t put makeup on every day. I pretty much walk around in my gym gear, and I just don’t feel like that resonates with my brand very well. If I do frock up and go somewhere, I’d definitely take a picture and post it. But realistically, this that you can see right now, this is my office, and I’m here, and I’m on Zoom calls for most of the day. There’s not an awful lot of happy stuff, exciting stuff going on. And so I was like, right, I’m going to go live on Instagram every day for a month.

0:24:52 Salena Knight: And then I can’t remember if that was like a Monday and got to the weekend and realized I hadn’t really thought this through. Am I going to go live on the weekend? Because it’s the weekend. I did go live, I think, for three out of the four weekends. But I did get to a weekend where I had been running a live event all day, and then I had to go straight to a neighbor’s house for dinner, and then I got gluten because I’m wheat free and I felt a bit crap. And so I was like, oh, my God, I haven’t gone live. And it was a really bad live, basically saying, events work for businesses, you should do more events. I’ve been at this event, they did really well, you should do more events. And then I had to hang up and go home and spend the rest of the afternoon in the evening in the bathroom.

0:25:35 Salena Knight: So I kind of didn’t think that through. I also, for the first week, had no call to action. I was kind of using it as a soapbox realized and I think I did a post like seven days in, which was all the things I had done wrong in that first week, and one was not had a clear call to action, I’m pretty sure on most of them, I didn’t even introduce myself. That was a bit silly and realized as I was doing that live realized that I actually had this structure already written down because many years ago I used to go live on a Friday night about 05:30 p.m.,

0:26:08 Salena Knight: and we have burger night in our house, so I make burgers. And so I used to do like a marketing question while I was making burgers and having a glass of wine. And so it was always fun. And I’d be out on the barbecue cooking and I had that structure written down. It was like an intro, what the person had done right, because it was always a real thing. It was like, take the names out, but a real situation that someone had been in or a real question, but here are three things they’ve done right.

0:26:36 Salena Knight: Here was the biggest problem, and here are my three solutions, one to three solutions that I would give them. So as I was going live, I was thinking, you’ve done this before. You don’t have to reinvent the wheel. You could just go and find that document. So I was a little bit more structured. I didn’t usually have notes. A couple of times I had notes if there were like, stats I wanted to go through, like or seven things, and I’d written the seven things down on a scrap of paper, but I wanted them to be very authentic.

0:27:05 Salena Knight: And some of them, they weren’t the most eloquent. But I did go live for, I think, about 27 out of 30 days, most of the days. And as a result, we had seven people contact us to work with us so completely didn’t even do the when I got a little better. I was like, hey, if this is the kind of stuff that you need help with, feel free to DM me. We can have a chat about whether we’ve got a program that works for you.

0:27:35 Salena Knight: We don’t have any obligations, but you can chat to my team and blah, blah, blah. So we had seven people. Let’s be honest, seven people is a lot when I don’t even have a thousand followers, right?

0:27:45 Jenn Donovan: Yeah.

0:27:46 Salena Knight: I have made no attempt to grow my Instagram. I think I have about 1500 now. Because the other thing I did, right, was somebody reached out to me, someone was commenting and they had the blue tick, and I didn’t know what the blue circle with the tick was. And I was like, oh, hey, you’ve.

0:28:04 Jenn Donovan: Got this blue thing. What is that?

0:28:05 Salena Knight: And she wrote back and she’s like, oh, it just means I’m verified. I’m like, what does that mean? Basically, it means, like, a lot of followers. Okay, anyway, she messaged me and said, I would love to do an Instagram live with you. I’ve never done it before. I think it would be great. She had an amazing story. It’s actually up on the podcast if anyone wants to listen to it. And she talked about how she built this amazing business and then it imploded and essentially what happened from there. So it was a very brave conversation to have and how she’d rebuilt another business. But I was so grateful for somebody who would come on and actually tell the story like it was and not try and gloss over all the bad stuff, all the crap that you go through.

0:28:51 Salena Knight: And so that because she had 40,000 followers. I think I went from like 700 to 1500 followers overnight. And I do know that some of those followers have actually then gone on to buy some of our products. So not even just organic reach. I just know from the names of kind of things up. And I’m like, oh, because let’s be honest, when you don’t have that many followers, you can actually remember the names. And so those people have then turned into be customers.

0:29:19 Salena Knight: So what it did for me was one, it affirmed the fact well, to me, you could tell me I’m wrong, because this is a question for you. It affirmed the fact that showing up in a way that is the way that you want to show up makes a difference. I am not good at dancing and pointing. It takes me as long to record a reel as it did to go live for 25 minutes and actually provide 25 minutes of funny advice, strategy, or connection that you don’t get in one of those things, because that’s what I’m good at. I’m good at speaking.

0:29:59 Salena Knight: That’s how I build the connection. I’m kind of okay at writing, but I don’t build connection through it. I build the connection through speaking. And so for me, it was showing up in a way that worked for me and not the way everybody else said that you had to show up, made a difference. And then on top of that, we now have, oh my God, I don’t know, over 1000 pieces of content from those 27 videos that we can repurpose. They’ve now been cut down into 30 and 62nd snippets that we can repurpose. I did get one hater who told me that they were all too long. And I’m like, dude, it’s an instagram live. Like, yeah, I should chop them up. That’s what we’ll do after the 30 days.

0:30:42 Salena Knight: But yeah, so that’s what came out for me. Yes, it worked. Yes, it translated into qualified leads. Whether they’ve turned into customers just yet. I think one has actually turned into a pan customer. But then we had some who had purchased smaller ticket items and for me, it’s just showing up the way I wanted to do to do it.

0:31:07 Jenn Donovan: Yeah, I think that’s really important. I talk a lot about showing up, a lot about human to human marketing. I’m also not afraid to put a filter on. You know what? If you put a filter on, we can all see it’s a filter. There’s no misconceptions that that’s what you look like. If that’s going to help you show up and you want to put a filter on, put a filter on. But if you want to show up as you, that’s totally fine as well. But putting barriers in front of yourself, I guess, and you tore down some of those barriers just in that conversation you’re talking about that you did have at times some notes written down.

0:31:41 Jenn Donovan: People think that people like you and I go live and we just kind of have these words just flow out of us and it’s all perfect. No, quite often I’ve got a sticky note somewhere. I might even have a written on my hand because, yes, I can talk underwater, but otherwise I just won’t get my point across. Well, you get distracted by the comments, right? That’s right.

0:32:04 Salena Knight: That’s what I found really difficult was do you respond to the comments if you’re going live or do you wait till the end? And in the end I had to go, you guys comment, I got to get through my thing and then I’ll go back and look at the comments because otherwise we’re just going to be here forever and I’m just going to forget where we are.

0:32:21 Jenn Donovan: Yeah, that’s right. But you did write things down. You had potentially a little bit of a script. Like you and I podcast all the time. I literally write my podcast before I do it because then it’s turned into a blog. I don’t read my podcast, but I do actually do it because then because it’s my hero piece of content. So then it gets repurposed into all these other bits. If you’re scared of it, like that lady reached out to you and said, I’ve never done it before. Can you with me? Because she clearly thought that you were much further along the chain than she was. As far as Instagram lives, I think.

0:32:54 Salena Knight: We both agreed that actually she would be worse off if it didn’t work, because she had 40,000 followers and I only had 700, so it wasn’t going to hurt me if it all went better.

0:33:06 Jenn Donovan: But she’s kind of like, I don’t want to do this by myself. I’m going to do it with someone else. Find a friend, do an Instagram, live with someone else. If you’re afraid or if you’re a little bit concerned, there is actually on Instagram in particular, and when I’m talking live, you can go live on LinkedIn, TikTok, Facebook. Of course, we’re not just talking about Instagram here, but Instagram does have a really cool feature where you can actually practice. You can put it into practice mode.

0:33:36 Jenn Donovan: Personally, I wouldn’t do it because then I think you just get into the mindset of, oh, I just can’t do this. I keep buggering it up. Just press live and just deal with whatever happens. I’m pretty sure anyone who goes live has a certain percentage of their audience going, I wish I could do that. They’re not even looking at the mistakes. It’s like being at the gym. I look at the fit lady and think, man, I’d like to be like that one day. And I’m pretty sure there’s a lady on day one who’s looking at me going, wow, I hope I can do that one day. Like we always want further down the lines.

0:34:09 Jenn Donovan: The third thing I guess you said, which I thought was really important, was you had something to sell them. So you kind of, like, had a bit of a call to action. I know it was in week two or something like that, but you had something to back it up. So you gained a fan. You created Curiosity, which is part of marketing’s job, is to create curiosity. And then they went on to become paying clients, which was amazing.

0:34:34 Jenn Donovan: And of course you showed up as you, I think was really important as well. And then you repurposed the content so it wasn’t a waste. It wasn’t just something you did in January. It’s something that can now be recycled and repurposed for the rest of the year. In fact, probably years to come. I’m pretty sure there’s things in there that you’re like, I’ve been saying this for 20 years and you’re just saying it again.

0:34:59 Salena Knight: The hilarious part is we actually have a girl who does all the cuts for us. I have no insight, and sometimes it’s really interesting to see what she thinks is memorable enough to have made a clip out of. And I’m like, yeah, now that you put it like that, that’s really good.

0:35:17 Jenn Donovan: Yes, exactly. Sometimes things just become and I think that’s a really good lesson for everybody. We are so used to our businesses, we forget the things that we are saying are resonating with other people in a totally different way. I think as small business owners, we really underestimate what we know that other people would like to know.

0:35:39 Salena Knight: I think especially with retail and ecommerce, you just said something like, oh, you I’ve been saying that for 20 years, and you just have it in 17 different formats. And I think people forget when it comes to retail and ecommerce products, that because somebody sees the same thing 27 times in six months, it’s not a problem, because the first time you see, oh, that’s nice. The second time you see it, oh, actually, I remember I liked that, but I never actually clicked on it. And the third time you see it, you go, oh, I must remember to click on that. The fourth time you see it, oh, there it is again.

0:36:11 Salena Knight: Okay, I’m going to screenshot.

0:36:12 Jenn Donovan: So I get back to it, and.

0:36:14 Salena Knight: The fifth time, it’s like, oh, I remember that. Screenshot. All right, I’m just going to click I’m finally going to click on it. And then they click on it. And then the kids walk in or the phone rings or whatever. The 7th time they say, oh, I wanted that thing. And it could be 20 times before they actually get the damn thing to check out and actually get all the way through checkout. And so I think too many people, I think we think people actually give a care, they give a crap. They don’t remember what you posted three months ago.

0:36:45 Jenn Donovan: We’re a little bit vain without noticing it. I think that we’re kind of like, oh, I can’t say that again. People will think that. I keep repeating myself. Like, no, they probably didn’t even hear it. And if they did, they don’t remember it. They’re all so busy. They might have an inkling or something like that. It’s like when people are trying to sell or they’ve got a particular range happening or a sale happening or something, they’re like, but I can’t post about it again. I’m like, really?

0:37:16 Jenn Donovan: Because not everybody sees your post.

0:37:19 Salena Knight: Let’s just remember this. You want to think that all 15,000 people saw your post. They didn’t.

0:37:28 Jenn Donovan: And if you have a look at your analytics, it kind of tells you that as well.

0:37:33 Salena Knight: I think we got distracted.

0:37:35 Jenn Donovan: So what are we looking, really?

0:37:39 Salena Knight: What are we looking for in the analytics, and where are we looking?

0:37:43 Jenn Donovan: So we’re looking at on Facebook and Instagram, they’re called Insights. And my best advice would be to you is to get in there and just have a look and start maybe have a look today, and then have a look in two weeks time. Just sort of get to know what there is in there and how that can be a little bit strategic for you. And I guess if we take it off social media, I mentioned at the start. If we take email marketing for instance, most email marketing programs will show you what it looks like on mobile and what it looks like on desktop. Most of them will give you an insight as to where your audience is opening it most. So if you go in there and find that most of your audience is opening your ecommerce newsletter on mobile, and then you go and have a look at the template you’re using and it looks crap on mobile, maybe if you fix that up, you might get a better open rate and a better click through rate and more sales.

0:38:41 Jenn Donovan: Maybe people are really interested in your content to come through email, but maybe it’s so bad for them to look at, they’re like, oh, I’ll have a look at it on my desktop when I get back to the office. And of course, what happens? They get in and there’s a thousand other emails on top of yours and it just doesn’t get there.

0:38:57 Salena Knight: Maybe you’ve got like 17 products and actually if everyone’s living on mobile, just put one or three, like not 17.

0:39:04 Jenn Donovan: Yeah, that’s right. With a really cool call to action that takes them to go and visit the other 14 that you might like them to go and see or something like that. People will say email marketing doesn’t work. And it’s just like, well have you checked this, this and this? Well no. How about we do that and then we’ll proclaim it doesn’t work. Let’s not just throw the baby out the first time around when we haven’t really looked at the data. It’s one of the reasons why I love digital marketing so much is because there is data to base decisions.

0:39:36 Salena Knight: It’s why I love email marketing. You make so much money out of email marketing if you actually put a bit of time and effort in.

0:39:45 Jenn Donovan: Yeah, absolutely. Especially do you still use clavio?

0:39:49 Salena Knight: Yeah.

0:39:50 Jenn Donovan: Oh my God, the data in that makes my head hurt. And I love data, but again, people will come to me and they’ll say, oh Jen, I need an Instagram strategy. I want to sort of get more leads and more clients from Instagram. But we’ll go and have a look at Google Analytics and Google is actually where most of their leads come from and then Facebook and Instagram really isn’t even in the top four. And so it’s like, well do you actually need an Instagram strategy or do you need a Google strategy?

0:40:21 Jenn Donovan: Clearly most people are finding you right now. So again, data tells you that you don’t have to guess, you have to go. Data will tell you where you should be spending your time, effort, energy when it comes to your marketing.

0:40:34 Salena Knight: I know that I have said this 27 times. This will be number 28, probably 28 billion is. If you are not on Google Shopping, you are losing out. Like last night. Last night I was looking to well, I wasn’t looking to buy. I was window shopping for a spa and a spa pool. You type in spa pool, and there’s 200 people who sell spas. I’m not going to click on all them. I go to Google Shopping and I get an instant overview. It’s going to cost me somewhere between 4020, $7,000. Okay, I can dig a little bit deeper. But all I really wanted to know was what’s the starting price? And then I dug in and was like, okay, what do they cost to run and do I still want one now that I know what it’s going to cost? But if you’re not on Google Shopping, customers don’t have time to wade through to page 27 to find your store that stocks that blue T shirt. And I know that we think we are so much more prolific than we are, but we’re not. Like, I’m putting my hand up.

0:41:35 Salena Knight: If you don’t know who my name is, I’m probably not coming up, right? So don’t think that your customers are any different when it comes to buying stuff. They’re looking for the easiest way to find their thing, and it doesn’t mean that they won’t pay more money for it. That was a double negative. So hopefully it didn’t cancel itself out just because you might say, okay, but the leads that come with your data, the leads I get through Google Shopping, maybe they’re not as high an average order value or I don’t have a high customer lifetime value. So put your prices up a little bit. If people can find you, they’re going to buy the thing. They’re not going to say, oh, well, if I spend the next half an hour shopping, like clicking all these links, I might find it $4 cheaper.

0:42:16 Salena Knight: I would say most people are like me, click to shopping, buy the thing.

0:42:21 Jenn Donovan: Yeah. There’s a reason why some of the biggest companies in the world are the biggest companies in the world, and it is because their model to purchase is easy. You can hate on ebay, you can hate on Amazon all you want, but it’s so easy to even someone like.

0:42:42 Salena Knight: Sheen, we’re talking products. We all know the stuff is crap.

0:42:47 Jenn Donovan: And we all know we shouldn’t do it because it’s probably really ethically, badly manufactured.

0:42:53 Salena Knight: But one of the biggest companies in the world, and you type in blue T shirt. I bet you that there’s a Sheen T shirt in there. Like that they’re paying the money. They’re putting themselves out there. And like you said, they are literally at the point where people know that it’s crap and they’re still getting sales.

0:43:12 Jenn Donovan: How much do I hate Mark Zuckerberg? I still talk about his platform all the time. I would prefer they fell off the face of the earth and never came back. But they work, and we need to work with what’s working at the moment. Necessarily saying we should support sweatshops and things like that, certainly, but I would do anything for Mark Zuckerberg not to be at the head of the two biggest companies that I talk about the most inside my business.

0:43:44 Salena Knight: Yeah, but like you said, you have to make that that’s a business decision, right? The business decision is I can choose not to grow, or I can choose to grow and use this platform. And maybe you have the money to go and find the other platforms or to build a presence on another platform. But all these platforms, TikTok is owned by Chinese conglomerates.

0:44:09 Jenn Donovan: The guy who owns Google ain’t much better.

0:44:12 Salena Knight: None of these people are little startups in a shed anymore. Right. The reason that they’re big platforms is because they have been built to do.

0:44:21 Jenn Donovan: That, but they’ve all come in customer centric. That is the thing that they all have in common, is that they are customer centric from the outside. They’re probably not on the inside, but they make things simple. And that’s kind of I guess some of the things we need to think about as business owners as well is how can we make business simpler? Yes.

0:44:44 Salena Knight: All right. We’ve been talking for a while, you know, that you and I could talk for a really long time. I feel like the only real, really hard questions I asked you was about marketing plan. But we got so much more in terms of insight, insights. We talked about insights. We have talked about creating content that feels like you the different ways to create content even if you don’t want to turn up. Like, you can have your team create this content.

0:45:10 Salena Knight: You can have the memes, okay, we’re not going to have too many of those. But you can have product like all the things you can have if you don’t want to be in front of the camera. There are other options we talked about. You got to be showing up and you got to have call to action.

0:45:25 Jenn Donovan: So if I could have one challenge to you after you listen to us rabbit on for goodness knows how long, in the end, it’s go and put a post up of your face or do a video or do a live if you’re feeling extra brave and come back to us and say, yeah, okay, that worked really well. I got the most amount of engagement or the most eyeballs or the most likes, because if it doesn’t, I don’t know, I’ll be really surprised.

0:45:52 Jenn Donovan: I’m not going to make some big claim that I’ll run down the main street naked, but seriously, I would put something big on it that it’s going to be one of the best posts you do.

0:46:02 Salena Knight: Do you know, one of my pet peeves is I don’t hang out a lot on Instagram, so I don’t even actually like the way the platform is formatted. I’m a wordy person, so I like Facebook because it has words, whereas Instagram is the pictures different platforms. But what really frustrates me on both platforms, but particularly Instagram is when I see something I like and I can’t get to it. So it’s not clicked, it’s not Instagram shoppable, there’s no link in. Like, I know links don’t work, but you could at least give me some idea of where I have to go sometimes. I don’t even know your store, right? It’s popped up in my feed and you’ve got some random name that’s not the

0:46:46 Salena Knight: and so I don’t know who you are. And then I’m like, now I’ve got to go to the profile. And let’s be honest, I know that most of you don’t have your address or your website in your profile. Like it’s ridiculous. So now I’m like, this is all too like you said, you got to make it easy.

0:47:00 Jenn Donovan: Now I’ll go to Google Shopping.

0:47:02 Salena Knight: I’ll just go Google Shopping. I saw this really nice dress. I’m just going to go and Google it because it’s going to pop up easily. And the same thing in Facebook. I know we don’t have the link shopping, but even there’s a company here in Australia, I think it’s feel like it’s you’re going to know it starts with an H and I can’t think of it right now. It’s kind of like an Australian hard to find. There you go. And what they will say is search blue check shirt on the website so where yet they can’t link it. They’ll actually tell you what to search for. But it’s kind of smart because now we know that maybe search circular mirror.

0:47:45 Salena Knight: And now they know that actually you’re not going to get the one thing, you’re going to get 17 circular mirrors. So I feel like it’s a little bit sneaky in the way that they’re actually giving you the option to look at more things. But even that and their customers know that that is every single post is search this thing, search this thing, search this thing. So they’ve got their customers into the habit of it.

0:48:06 Salena Knight: They may well have changed that. Now maybe it’s more shoppable, but I do remember always it was like, oh, when I go to their website, I have to go search that, search this thing. But yeah, if you don’t make it easy for people to buy and I didn’t for that first week, remember half the time I didn’t tell them who I was and the other half the rest of the time I forgot to say, hey, reach out to me. Because I just assumed if you liked what I said, you’d reach out to me.

0:48:29 Salena Knight: But yeah, sometimes the most obvious thing is just staring us in the face, but we’re so in it that we don’t realize that we haven’t done the thing yet.

0:48:39 Jenn Donovan: Absolutely. It’s one of the best, worst things about being a small business owner is sometimes the weeds. It’s awfully hard to see the sunshine. But we have, I guess, sitting back and having that reflection time is what caused you to go, okay, we too is going to be different. I’m glad yours was a success because otherwise this podcast is going to be really bad if I’d crowed about it for 20 minutes and you’re like, well, it didn’t actually work for me, Jen.

0:49:13 Salena Knight: If it worked, what I was going to say is, at the beginning, my biggest issue, this is a reflection, right, is I did not set out to get more customers. Like, I had no goal. And that was the first week I realized I was like, you’ve been doing this now for seven days. Slap myself on the head, why are you doing this thing? And in fact, I think I may have even done an Instagram. They all melded into each other, but I think I did several conversations about the whole point. You’re here on social media is because you want customers.

0:49:45 Salena Knight: That’s the only reason as a retail and ecommerce business, you are on social media. And so it would be remiss of me to not say I’m here to get more customers. And that was after that first week, I was like, why am I here? Well, I’m here to get more customers. I’m here to be known. I’m here to get people to understand how I operate, the kinds of products that I have, the people that I work with. And so then it becomes much easier when you just sit down. Like you said it right back at the beginning, like, who are your people?

0:50:15 Salena Knight: What do you want to be known for and what do you want out of it? So those three things alone completely changed. And I’m not saying that was fantastic for the next 27 days, but I always made sure to say who I was. I always made sure to say, hey, this is a bit of an experiment to see that if I do what I’m good at, which is speaking and strategy, is it going to get me customers? Because at the end of the day, that’s why we’re here.

0:50:37 Jenn Donovan: And if you like this kind of.

0:50:39 Salena Knight: Stuff, reach out, we’ll have a chat. So I think the reflection is probably something we didn’t talk about, but inside of our programs, we actually have a debrief form for any promotion, any sort of campaign that you do, you can do a debrief. And that to me is whether you do it on a piece of paper or you just sit back and reflect. I sent that email. I posted that thing. Oh, I posted that thing when I forgot to make it Instagram shoppable. Or I forgot to tell someone it was on sale or I forgot to tell someone that we only had three left.

0:51:09 Salena Knight: Don’t beat yourself up. Just know that that just makes the next lot of marketing even better.

0:51:15 Jenn Donovan: Yeah, absolutely. Marketing is test, measure, polish, retest, remeasure, repolish. Unfortunately, it’s never going to be perfect, but it can certainly have imperfections, but still be doing its job. But you learn. And if you look at the data, you’ll learn what to do better next time.

0:51:40 Salena Knight: Can I just finish off with one story that I just heard back from one of our coaches? So one of our store owners, it doesn’t even have a website. Doing extremely well. Seven figure business, doesn’t have a website, has a POS, but doesn’t really have a database and is in the process of fixing all of that.

0:51:57 Jenn Donovan: Sounds like my best friend. Is this the same business?

0:51:59 Salena Knight: I’ll have to ask you off in a regional town. Anyway, so we had a conversation that she had some old stock that she needed to move. If you come into this store, you have money. So is an industry where there is money. And so I said, all right, well, we don’t want to just discount 50% off. We’ve got to get some volume. Let’s do buy two T shirts, get the third free. And so only having a really tiny database, I think we’re talking tiny, like, 50 people because that’s all they collected emails for, sent the email out.

0:52:35 Salena Knight: Nobody wanted the buy two, get three, get one free. This is summer stock. We’re going into winter. They all bought the full price stuff. The whole point is you’re just saying testing and measuring and seeing what your customers want. Sometimes customers don’t want a discount.

0:52:52 Jenn Donovan: Yeah, but is that the reason why they opened? Like, did the subject line something to do with the sale I have not opened? And then they got in there and went, oh, no, I like those jumpers much better. So sometimes one does lead to the other, and sometimes you won’t be able to tell the data martin Bow quite unless you AB tested it with different subject lines or something like that.

0:53:15 Salena Knight: I think realization was actually, I don’t need to discount, I just need to do some marketing.

0:53:22 Jenn Donovan: Yeah. Yes.

0:53:23 Salena Knight: Boom.

0:53:24 Jenn Donovan: What a thing to finish. Love it. Mike dropped. Please do marketing people.

0:53:32 Salena Knight: Jen, if people are thinking, I got to hang out with this girl, where can they find you?

0:53:38 Jenn Donovan: They can find me on all the platforms, basically, at Jen Donovan. Or if you like the sound of my dull state tones, come and listen to the Small Business Made Simple podcast. I’m over there. You can listen to Tell and I again on that, which is coming out soon. So if you just want to get more of us, yeah, you can do a double whammy of that, for sure.

0:53:59 Salena Knight: And it’s not even the same conversation because we never have the same conversation twice.

0:54:04 Jenn Donovan: Absolutely not. Thank you so much. It’s been so great.

0:54:09 Salena Knight: That’s okay. Social media, where do we find you?

0:54:12 Jenn Donovan: At Jen Donovan underscore on Instagram, at Jen Donovan on Facebook, or at Jen Donovan on LinkedIn? Also, LinkedIn is my favorite, but don’t tell the others.

0:54:23 Salena Knight: I don’t mind a good. LinkedIn. And if you’re a retail and ecommerce store owner, the next thing after Google Shopping is go and spend some time on LinkedIn because people over there like buying stuff and nobody else is using.

0:54:34 Jenn Donovan: It to sell it to them.

0:54:36 Salena Knight: I know, but that’s another topic. Thank you so much, Jen.

0:54:42 Jenn Donovan: My pleasure. Thank you.

0:54:46 Salena Knight: So that’s a wrap. I’d love to hear what insight you’ve gotten from this episode and how you’re going to put it into action. If you’re a social kind of person, follow me at the Selena Knight and make sure to leave a comment and let me know. And if this episode made you think a little bit differently or gave you some inspiration or perhaps gave you the kick that you needed to take action, then please take a couple of minutes to leave me a review.

0:55:15 Salena Knight: On your platform of choice. Because the more reviews the show gets, the more independent retail and ecommerce stores just like yours, that we can help to scale. And when that happens, it’s a win for you, a win for your community and a win for your customers. I’ll see you on the next episode.



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