Salena Knight 0:02
So hey there, and welcome to the bringing business to retail podcast. If you're looking to get more sales, more customers, master your marketing and ultimately take control of your retail or E commerce business, then you're in the right place. I'm Selena Knight, a retail growth strategist and multi award winning store owner whose superpower is uncovering exactly what your business requires to move to the next level. I'll provide you with the strategies, the tools and the insight you need to scale your store. All you need to do is take action. Ready to get started.

Salena Knight 0:52
Hey there and welcome to the bringing business to retail. Podcast. Now I reckon that pretty much every woman who has ever been to a hairdresser in her life has had at least one traumatic experience. I know for me, there have been more than one. I have fine hair. I have blonde hair. It doesn't grow very fast, and every time I get my hair done, I never walk away feeling amazing or feeling gorgeous, like I know some people do, but me, not so much. But I have to say that my traumatic experience has never been to the level experienced by today's guest, Angela fields. Angela, I'm not even going to try and tell people about what happened to you when you went to the hairdresser. Can you please tell us the story?

Angela Fields 1:38
Yes, absolutely. I still remember it as if it was just yesterday, and it was not as the cosmetologist was using chemical relaxer on my hair. It's a product that's a creamy like texture lotion, like texture that's kind of painted on with a brush and so and as she's moving through the sections and painting the product onto my hair, she dropped the brush. It stuck to my face, and then she peeled it off. And as she was wiping this side, she wound up touching this side of my face. So it went from the left side of my face to the right side of my face with the brush. And so as we finished moving through the process and then going to rinse the product off and trying to make sure we got it off, off my face, the next step is using a neutralizing shampoo. So that's to bring that pH down, close those cuticles, and bring your hair back to a safer range. And she didn't fully use the neutralizing shampoo on my face. So in other words, it continued processing on my face. In other words, and so while the hair may have moved through the process, and then, you know, she finished styling, it left some curls in. And then I moved on to the salon, I did not even as I left the salon, rather, I did not realize it was literally still processing on my face, because it hadn't been fully neutralized. And so less than 24 hours later, it's starting to react on my face and and developed into some blisters, some some bright pink areas where there was severe irritation, and, gosh, and it went from there.

Salena Knight 3:13
Let's be honest, getting your hair done always an experience. Not that kind of experience, hopefully, but if you're putting something on your hair that does that to your skin, you can only, I don't even know, I'm not a huge chemical person, and very much like you, I use lots of natural products where I can, you know, there are some times when you have to get a chemical out to do the thing, but realistically, I'm soap and water kind of person. I'm a bicarbon Vinegar kind of person, and that story just terrifies me. So what did you do? Well,

Angela Fields 3:50
ultimately, I thought it was just going to clear up. I'm like, Well, eventually this will, because I as much as I had used chemical relaxers on my hair, as many salons as I had been to, and in many visits. And this was being used. I didn't understand the full danger of what was in that container until I'm going through this on my face. And so after a few days, it didn't clear up. I started trying to use some over the counter items, and that made it worse. It really started burning.

Salena Knight 4:21
I actually, at this point, that's what it was from.

Angela Fields 4:25
I still thought we had gotten it all off of my face, so I didn't realize it was literally still processing, and basically, you know, being absorbed to some extent, into the bloodstream, because it had been sitting on the face, so being absorbed into the skin levels to the deeper levels. So no, I didn't realize that is, is, was this the same thing, or did I have an allergic reaction to something else? So because I had so many allergies, I was thinking that maybe something she used that day was causing an allergic reaction, not that the chemical was still processing on my face. Yes, but after I started using the over to counter products, and it was just getting really irritated and almost swelling up, that's when, and it turned out I was on vacation the particular week that this happened, and I didn't have plans to travel, so I just tried to stay out of the sun, just trying to give my face a chance to recover from what I thought was an allergic reaction happening. And then I eventually built an appointment to see my doctor, and I go in to see her, and she's like, what's going on? And I tell her what I'm now starting to think it is the chemical, because I've not had an allergic reaction that kept progressing to this point, especially once I started using a variety of creams on it, it generally gets better. And so I'm telling her, so I think it was the chemical response on my face and and I'm and she's asking me questions to try and understand the chemical. And she's like, you pay someone to do this? Yeah, I didn't, yeah. Have you been doing this for long? Yeah, for a good part of my life at this point. Are there any other options? And it just kind of struck me, well, you know, I haven't stopped to think about that of late, but there's got to be some better options than this. So ultimately, what she told me we had to do was to use silvidean cream, which is the same cream that is used like in hospitals when someone has been caught in a house fire, or there's been a chemical fire, or car fire, what have you like,

Salena Knight 6:23
a really strong burning cream. Yes, yes, wow, yes.

Angela Fields 6:27
That is what had to be used on my face. And when you put the silhouette in cream on it's a tannish, creamy colored product, like a lotion, like texture, you then have to bandage it, because it can't be exposed to any type of light, because it'll turn your skin black. And so you have to stay out of the sun. You really have to limit exposure to a lot of bright lights in your home, in all honesty, and you have to keep everything bandaged. And so you have to treat the three times a day, and then bandaged it up. So even though I wasn't leaving my home during that treatment time. I still stayed in and pretty much kept all the blinds closed. I didn't want to, you know, have any issue, and I still had a minor issue, because I had a sunlight way at the I had 20 foot vaulted ceilings, and there was a sunlight almost at the ceiling height. And sun was coming in as I was sitting at my desk and working. So just above the bandage, it was just enough angle in that it started turning my skin black. And I'm like, Well, I can check that off the box too, that it, when it says it'll turn your skin back, it really will, and not even realizing that the sun was really hitting me at that point. Because, you know, again, I've got all the blinds closed and everything. So I kind of shifted to another place in the home to work for the duration of that time period that I was undergoing treatment. But that was seven to 10 days of three times a day applying the cream, then bandaging. And now it's next time. So you wash your face gently, and then you apply the cream again and bandage again. So that's three times a day for seven to 10 days,

Salena Knight 8:01
this is not the vacation you were planning on. You No, this

Angela Fields 8:05
was not the vacation I had planned on. Not at all. And it really hit hard. And I'm like, I have got to understand what's in those products. I have got to understand. And as I started researching it was it was really terrifying and eye opening that it had just become so commonplace. You I had no fear of it. I didn't realize I shouldn't have a fear of it. I didn't realize what could happen. And now, and also understand when you're getting the product on your hair, sometimes it gets on your scalp, and it could cause a burn on your scalp, but it does heal on its own over time. But see, then again, your scalp is all involved in the neutralizing shampoo part. So, you know, it's really stopping the product from processing further.

Salena Knight 8:53
You had an experience, yeah. And I think, like most product creators, the reason that the whole catalyst of coming up with the product that you end up creating is generally because either it doesn't exist, you've you haven't been able to find what you need in the format that you need, or, like you said, it's it's full of chemicals. And you know that there's got to be a better way. So I think we can thank your doctor for what ended up happening. She gave you that spark of, yeah, is there an alternative? And so obviously that sat and processed. I feel like it's not too soon, because it was quite sorry, I can say the words, it processed,

Angela Fields 9:33
process, yeah.

Salena Knight 9:36
What happened? Like, how did you get from that to where you are now? Because the people who are listening don't quite know where you are right now.

Angela Fields 9:45
Yes, how I got to where I am? So I started looking at what have what are we doing to our hair? What are the different types of ingredients that are used in these products and and how are they processed? And are there warning labels on the containers? Because, again, you're going. Into a salon and they're using this you're not at the storefront, looking at the ingredients and trying to understand it, nor do a research on it. So started asking a lot of questions, started doing the research, trying to understand, are there some other options out there? And really embracing natural hair texture really is, is the safest route. So my here, this is my natural texture. It has a very tight curl to it, you know, as you can see, very tight curl. And so for those listeners, it's about the size of a spring inside of a pin, as far as the diameter of my curl. And so it's just embracing that. Okay, what are the types of products I need to be using for me to embrace the texture of my own hair rather than trying to straighten my my hair out using strong chemicals. I

Salena Knight 10:51
think every curly person wants straight hair, and every straight haired person wants curly hair, because I have not moved to the bright side, yet I am still, I have very frizzy hair, and I am still a hair straightener kind of person, not saying you can't bring me around. So how did you embark on creating a product that is fragrance free, which I have to say, I love you for that, because as someone who suffers from hay fever and allergies and asthma, I quite often can't even walk down the washing powder aisle in a supermarket without sneezing. So something that is fragrance free, something that is natural, something that is good for you, that is not an easy process, and it's not even a cheap process. As someone who's been through the manufacturing process, I know that a lot of money goes into R D, so can you walk us through once you realize that there's got to be a better way, and these products really aren't good for you, and you have to embrace your hair. What happened next?

Angela Fields 11:49
Wow. What happened next? So I had a long list of allergies. I had been patch tested and allergy tested, and fragrance was a huge one. From the research that I'd done, I knew 96 to 98% of all US hair care is fragranced. And it could be essential oils, fragrance oils, or it could be something synthetic that was made in a lab. It didn't matter, 96 to 98% of all hair care products in the US are fragrance so I started, initially, I was trying to shop in those remaining products, to find those, buy them, and use them on my hair to see if it worked. And with my naturally curly texture, it's a very dry texture, and the products just didn't moisturize enough. You know, anytime that I may have found something that worked, that I'd have a reaction to it. And so it's something that I hadn't been tested for. So like, aloe vera is an amazing ingredient, and I found out the hard way that I'm allergic to aloe vera. So while a product with aloe in it worked very well to moisturize, you know, I was having a reaction to it on the other side. And so at this point, I felt like I had touched on everything in the US that's available. Started shopping in Canada and Europe, and really, I was just really committed to finding the products that I needed, and Canada and Europe, I shopped there. I found much better options, but I wasn't completely satisfied, but at this point, I had done the research. I knew which ingredients I needed, and I knew which ingredients I needed to avoid. So I just started shopping for the raw ingredients and making formulas in my kitchen. And so it was an iterative process. So I knew what I wanted to start with. I want to start with a moisturizer that has a lotion texture that is smooth and will distribute evenly. And so I'm looking at my raw ingredients that I'm working with, and I made some adjustments and and some iterations of it, and I just kept trying the formula, trying the formula. If I didn't like the results, I may mix the ingredients differently, or I may buy some new raw ingredients to use. And then I hit upon something amazing that worked, that moisturized my hair. It didn't weigh it down, and it felt really good. I mean, the texture of my hair just softened. And I'm like, This is it? My hair is softer. I can detangle it. It feels good to the touch. It looks good. It has a nice sheen to it. I mean, check all the boxes so I knew what I was going for, and I started working through these ingredients, and I documented all the formulas along the way, all the changes, and then I'd have my findings after I experienced the product, how did it feel? Was the scent still neutral, you know, and those types of things. So, yes, worked very hard, and did this for about a year in my apartment, and I was content just doing this for me. It's like I'm celebrating I did this, and it's working. Can you believe this type thing? What

Salena Knight 14:50
was your job before this? Because I just Is that what you are? Oh. What it's what you are now, yeah,

Angela Fields 15:02
literally, literally, you become a scientist as you're going through that product and development phase, and then the R D you're in the lab, you know, becoming a product formula. I worked in the utility industry. I was at 19 years at one utility. It's the largest utility in the world now. And then, I worked six and a half years at a company that was still in the utility industry, you know. So beauty was just my side thing. That was just one of those things I loved, all about makeup and hair care and skincare. That was just one of those passions that I never even thought about using to make a living from, you know. So I had this world out here where I worked, and then in my home, I knew what I loved to do. So, you know, it felt good, it felt right, it was fun. And so as it started out, and I had some friends and relatives telling me, you need to sell these products. I'm like, I have a job. No, no, I have a job. I was chestnut.

Salena Knight 15:59
I I had

Angela Fields 16:03
a job. This is for me. No. And then I was laid off, and still didn't immediately think I'm going to launch a hair care brand. I was just taking my time and thinking, what do I want to do next? I've thought about some other things. What should I try? And it was about three weeks into unemployment that I realized what I was going to do next was already in my kitchen, that it was not some long held passion to have a hair care brand now, now solving my own problem, and then realize I am not the only one. There are others struggling, and I can help them too.

Salena Knight 16:38
And they say I'm probably going to get this wrong, but necessity is the foundation for invention. So you did that. But then also the necessity of having to provide, you have to having to make a living, having to make money, and understanding that this product that you've got can be used by everybody else, many other people, but you and I both know well, you know now I know from a lot of experience that having a great idea does not make a profitable, sustainable business. Walk us through how you've managed to turn a countertop idea into a thriving, profitable and scalable business, because this is the part that so many people get wrong, in my opinion. And you and I have talked, and I think you it didn't all work right from the beginning. You had to chop and change and change out your messaging and all that kind of stuff. But so many people think that, that I said, that old chess network, people say you could sell this, and it's like, yeah, you could. But do you realize how loud that is? It is not a cheap process to take a product and get it out to the world to make money. In fact, that can take years before many products even make money. So What's that process like for you?

Angela Fields 17:52
You know, at times it was humbling. At times it was like, What was I thinking? To think I could just roll up and do this? I've lost my money. So absolutely so. When I initially launched, I announced I launched as a fragrance free brand, because I thought all these individuals with all these allergies and fragrance allergies, or if you live with someone with fragrance allergies, married to someone, take care of someone, you all have to live as though you have those same allergies. That's just how it works. So, you know, you can't live be covered in fragrance and someone over there, over there is having a migraine or or an asthma attack, you know, at the same time. So basically, I initially launched as a fragrance fruit brand natural hair care, with a lot of oils and butters, many of them food grade. And so I talked about my ingredients and the value of the ingredients, and that everything is sent neutral, completely fragrance free, and it's going to do amazing things for your hair, because I have things in it, like humectants and moisturizers. And that didn't move that, that sales button to where it needed to be. So it's like, okay, so now I need to think about this again and try this a different way. And so then I talked more about the ingredients and the value of those ingredients on the forefront, and then with fragrance allergies being more of a backseat to that, to see how that would test the market.

Salena Knight 19:19
And so ask a question, sorry. How long did it take you to realize that it was the messaging that was the problem? Because that was very insightful for you. Because most people will say, I'm not spending enough money on driving ads to my website. My website isn't good enough, my pictures aren't good enough. Messaging is quite often the last thing people think about, but you cottoned onto that really, really quickly. So you get a gold star from me for that.

Angela Fields 19:49
I have a Bachelor's of Science in marketing, and so I did have some insight into that, and from my work in the utility industry, also writing messaging, which. Whether it's doing some type of training for employees or writing messages that customers will be seeing ultimately on their bills or in letters. So I had background in that, and it's like, okay, either my messaging is not getting across, so I need to, like, double up if you will get more of that messaging out and in the map, in the marketplace. And you're right, it is sometimes difficult to know what is it, but I was very good with the website that came second nature, because, again, I had done website design during my time in the utility industry, so that part of it came fairly easy for me, and I could change around the messaging there, change the type of product photos that I was using, because those things incrementally did help, but it didn't take me to where I knew I needed to be for long term viability. And you know, in talking with other brands who are behind me on the path, and some brands that are further along the path because they've been doing this longer, they tell you at times, it's just like, who's the last man standing. That's the brand that's still going to be here. Because you just may say, Okay, I've done all I can do. I'm done. And then you're on to something else. But it's like that last man standing. Sorry, I'm

Salena Knight 21:12
going to jump into there again, because that, if people take nothing away from this podcast, what you just said to me is the most important part, and it's not even about the last man standing. You just kind of hinted at it. It is the focus, because you said you go off to something else, and that is most entrepreneur and business owners. Biggest problem is they cannot stick with something they are always looking at like you just said, if the messaging is not right, they're not looking at the problem. They're like, Oh, we've got to change the website. We've got to change the pictures. We've got to do this. We've got to do that, but actually distilling the problem down and going, okay, clearly wasn't the pictures, the website converts fine, but we just aren't getting, yeah, we're not getting this is the part that's broken. So instead of just going off and doing another photo shoot, that's not going to solve the problem. And so to me, when you say the last man standing is not necessarily the person with the deepest pockets, it's not necessarily the person with the biggest marketing team. It is the person who will stay focused and dedicated and driven to doing all the boring stuff that is running a business. And

Angela Fields 22:23
see, looking at those numbers, looking at the the metrics, okay, I'm getting this many visitors, and this many are converting, and this many convert this quickly. Okay, so when I get them here, they convert. When I get them here, they purchase. So I need to get more people there and so, and that's why it became more messaging. Okay, what do I need to say? And how do I need to say it to get more people to come to the site. Because if I can get them here, I can convert them. If I can talk to them, I can convert them. So that's the interesting piece, just like you're saying, and it's also a part of that I had done some pop up shops and where people are there buying. It could be a mix of things. It just depends. And so when I'm talking face to face, they're buying, so when I'm talking to them face to face, they're buying. And so my conversion rate, one on one, was much higher than it was on the website. So it's like, okay, there needs to be a way for me to better communicate. And so that's when it became more about the messaging in social media and having sticking to that messaging. So you really need to hit with that new messaging on all on, all paths, all avenues, for a significant length of time. You can't just do it for a week. You can't just do it for a

Salena Knight 23:40
month and think that it's good. Can't just put one post up and hope that it makes a difference.

Angela Fields 23:45
And post and run, post and run, you've got to be there to respond to the questions and the way you post may need to change, because it could be that your customers respond to a picture of hair, or it could be a picture of the product, or it could be you holding the product and using the product on your hair. And so that's how you can convey what the look and feel is, the texture is. So because you've got it right there on camera in the hands, you know, talking through it,

Salena Knight 24:15
can I ask you just to go back to messaging? First of all, you started off with fragrance, because that was one of your biggest pain points, and quite often, we think all of our customers are just like us, and your customers would so Bravo for realizing that really quickly. Then you went with ingredient. It's funny because you're saying things that I wouldn't necessarily look for. So I'm really interested to hear what else you continue to try to see if the thing that you end up with is the same thing that I think my pain point is, because so far now, you have done so many things right? You've tried different things. You've done the pop ups. And I think that every e commerce brand should try and do some kind. And of physical interaction with a customer, because everything that that customer says, the questions that they ask, how like is it? How they touch and feel? Are they picking the packaging up? I've seen brands with beautiful products, the best products in the world, but the packaging is crap. And I've literally had a client once where someone said, I love your product, but I don't want to buy it, because if people see it in my bathroom. It's ugly. And he was in, he was in a $15 million house, and he didn't want anyone to see the packaging. And so something that one little conversation changed her entire business. And so those interactions that you have that feel like they might be inconsequential at the time, and and just like you just said, you know the last man standing, and you said, and then you're off to something else that, to me, was one of the most important parts so far of the conversation. And when you're having those interactions with your customers, you can see what is important to them. So so far, walk me through. Fragrance didn't convert as well. Ingredients getting better. Did you move from there? Yes,

Angela Fields 26:01
I did. I moved through to painting the picture of what it will look like if you use the products. So ingredients got added into it, into the mix later. Fragrance free got added into the mix later. But what I started with, what I led with, is this is what you can have if you're using the products. You can have that soft, curly hair. You can have that longevity in your moisture. You can get the growth. You can address the hair loss. You can address the thinning using these products. And you want to know how the products work, okay, we've got humectants in them. We've got some protein in there. We've got nourishing vitamins and minerals in there. So, and it's fragrance free, by the way, so you won't have to worry about having that, that cloud, that fragrance cloud, over your head. And so that, what is, what has worked.

Salena Knight 26:52
I was saying I would buy a product that said something along the lines of, are you tired of dry, brittle hair? And you what you really want is this, you know, the soft, voluminous hair like models have, or, you know, have you always wished for that would get me in first, and then I would go to look at the ingredients and the fragrance. So you got there. You got there through the all the iterations, and you got there through the communication and the conversation you mentioned earlier, metrics. I love metrics. I love seeing like I love using data to grow a business. So can you talk me through the kind of metrics that you used, like, what you used back then, what you use now to continue to grow your business?

Angela Fields 27:38
Right? I wanted to know where my customers were coming from. Did they come from? Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok, LinkedIn, Pinterest. I wanted to know where they came from, how long they spent and then did they make a purchase, or was it their second time there? They made a purchase? And some of the interesting things is, Google is one of my best places. As far as new customers, I will help us Googling, Googling a range of things around hair care. So it could be dry hair, or best products for dry hair, it could be aging hair. How do I take care of aging hair or breaking hair? BREAKING hair realness. What

Salena Knight 28:19
did I say dry and brittle?

Angela Fields 28:24
Exactly, and so they came from Google, hit my website for the first time. They'll purchase my largest bundle, my most expensive bundle, the premium products, and they're out. And it happened in less than 10 minutes. And I'm like, Yes, and so it was, it was not there coming in from social media, because I wasn't running ads on Google. I wasn't posting on Google. You know, this is just Google the search engine. Brought them to my website, they came in, made a purchase, and they were out. And I'm like, Okay, I want you and your friend, any of your friends that are just like you. I want all those you know. Give me those Google customers. You know, still, you could see them coming in from Facebook Maybe, and maybe on their third or fourth visit, they make the purchase, because in some of the numbers that we see, a customer needs about seven touch points before they make a purchase. And then

Salena Knight 29:20
you're probably getting bigger, like the more we get bombarded. I mean, I hear marketing agencies saying anything up as high as 21 and I mean, this is one of the reasons so many people get burnt by ads. I mean, you've been really lucky, but at least you understand I need seven interactions, so I'm not going to go with just a conversion campaign, because I'm going to see that ad seven times, that's going to cost me a fortune. Yes, yes. Now you're talking about the sales funnel,

Angela Fields 29:49
and that sales funnel has changed, and the pandemic has brought some changes to that sales funnel, and just we go through marketplace changes in general as to how customer. Choose to purchase from us. Those things do evolve and change, and it does have some variation in the industry. But yes, you're looking for, okay, if, on average, a customer needs to have seven touch points with me, what is the most effective way that I can use given my limitation on dollars?

Salena Knight 30:19
You mentioned that. You said, I want all your friends who have hair like you to know about me. How have you captured that? Captured

Angela Fields 30:27
that by encouraging the customers I have. I have a private Facebook group. So in addition to social messages that are going out and questions coming over there, talking to individuals and then even surveying customers. Well, you know, when you think about it, what about your friends and family? What about a friends and family discount? I'd love to have your friends and family come in. And what's interesting is, as I have been learning, you're I am, I have been most likely to get the friends and family benefit over you two than I have been on any other social media platform. If I wasn't looking at metrics, I wouldn't know this.

Salena Knight 31:08
But what you've even realized is it's right offer to the right person at the right time on the right channel. And so being able to say that the messaging we're going to put on YouTube and the offer we're going to put on YouTube. It's different to the offer we're going to offer to our Facebook group, which might be different to our Instagram, which is going to be very different to our Google customers, because our Google customers are all about dry, brittle hair, and we can see that through the keywords that they're searching for. That is Brit How do you keep up with it all? Sometimes

Angela Fields 31:36
it is overwhelming, and sometimes it's just like, I'm so tired I need to hire a genie, a metrics Genie, and have them, but you have to, you have to track the numbers, and sometimes you have to start over in your tracking, because you realize maybe I wasn't tracking the right thing. It wasn't that right messaging or at the right moment, I wasn't tracking so yes, I rely heavily on Google Analytics, and I also rely on Shopify. That is the platform that I use for my store. They have an amazing array of metrics right in Shopify that I can receive, that I can monitor on a daily basis. I mean, I could go to my website right now and look who's on my website and see what pages they're on, and I can see their age range, their income range, you know some of the basic analytics about customers, because you you want to know who's your target customer. And see when I launched, my target customer was younger. They were in the 30 to 40 range. So all through those first years, 30 to 40 Well, nine more customers my most of my customers are 50 plus, maybe 45 would be another category in there.

Salena Knight 32:45
Yes. Did you find that I have some more questions to ask you, but I have to ask, did you find that the people in the 30s spent more or less than the people in their 50s?

Angela Fields 32:56
They spent less than the people in their 50s? Did they shop more often they did. They did shop more often. And so like in the beginning, one thing that I did that I thought would matter is I always offered free shipping. And I was trying to compete with the walk in locations, because customers in general, still in this particular space, they would rather walk into a location, get it, touch it. Oh, I got it at home tonight, and I can use it. You know, they don't really want to wait. And so trying to do free shipping is something I thought that would help encourage purchases. Well, what it did is it encouraged them to buy one product, and then maybe they'll come back later and buy another product. And so that has been a motivating factor as well. And so now if you spend this amount, fit more than $50 shipping is free. So if you're buying one product at a time, you're going to be paying for shipping. So that has been something else that has been in the mix, and I've learned that one and I've learned that shipping based on the dollar amount, so it's going to flex and change as they spend more. That's not what they're interested in, flat rate shipping. They want to know for sure what shipping is going to be before they make that purchase.

Salena Knight 34:06
That's a huge, a huge factor that a lot of people don't take into account. And even, like, you just said, knowing, like, knowing your average order value and making your free shipping slightly higher than that. Like, there's no point in having it at a price point that doesn't encourage people to spend more. You also touch it online. In this industry, people like to touch it, feel it and take it home tonight, and I can attest to that because I ordered some foundation and they didn't have it in stock, and I'm still waiting for it to come in stock, and I'm it's just one of those things. I don't wear an awful lot of makeup. But when I get on a record podcast, it's like, I'm I'm literally scraping the bottom of the barrel right now, like, please come on in. How have you transitioned something that is very much you have you have said right throughout this podcast, something that is smooth, some is creamy. You've talked about texture over and over again, something that spreads in. Evenly. How do you take that and turn it into something that you sell purely online? And

Angela Fields 35:08
that is the pleasure of videos. That is me sitting in front of the camera and styling my own hair and then holding the, you know, putting the moisturizer in my hand, and then you're doing this. So you can see the thickness of it because it's not moving. So you know this is going to work very for you. And then also, another good one is putting it between your fingers. And so you're doing this, and so they can see how sticky or not sticky the product is because of how it's coming between the fingers. So getting that product right up close to that camera lens so that they can see it. You want them to feel like, okay, I'm doing my hair right now. You want them to feel that way. And so that's one of the better ways for them to be able to spirit experience the best way for them to experience it. It is still very expensive for a small brand to launch in a retailer. It's different if it's like a mom and pop type location or location that's local to you, but when you start talking about large retailers, it can be very expensive to do it, and not every small brand has that type of budgeting available to them, and so you're trying to do all that you can do to bring that customer In.

Salena Knight 36:19
How many products are in the range? Now I have

Angela Fields 36:23
three products in the range. Now I have an old serum that is a growth treatment, organic pumpkin seed oil, a deep conditioner, and then a leave in conditioner. Which one is the most popular? Wow, the deep conditioner is the most popular. And then the leave in conditioner behind that. And then the growth serum. And there are months where the growth serum outperforms the other two. And so it's just interesting. As you see, the numbers change over the course of a month, the course of a quarter, six months and so forth. It's always interesting. And then starting trying to explain or understand, and then how to capitalize on what happened, and what can I do different or better? Now, that is definitely a benefit of a smaller company. Because you're more agile, more nimble, you can make those changes

Salena Knight 37:08
much quicker. Okay, what are the what are the plans for the future? Wow. I

Angela Fields 37:12
have been working on a course ageless stresses, navigating hair health, through menopause and beyond. So as I realized that my customer age was increasing, obviously menopause and hormones is going to be a big part of that. And we talk about what menopause does to our bodies, the hot flashes, all these different things we go through, but we're not talking about the hair separately. And there are things happening to our hair as we age, and understanding that helps you in choosing the right products, the right processes. And so I started bringing content forward and talking through it, doing some sessions. Been having a number of free sessions over the last several months, taking feedback and then bringing that feedback into the course to change the type of content. So I am working on launching this course, ultimately will be something that you purchase and self service, and then you can take the course, you know, at your own leisure, self paced. And so at this point, what I've been doing is doing it over zoom and over YouTube. So getting announcing it, getting a group of ladies together and then sitting down and going through the course content. And then as questions come in, if need be, I do adjust the content based on what they're saying. I love

Salena Knight 38:31
multiple income streams from one product. Yes. So if people are looking for your product, because I know that I'm about to head off to the US. Oh, do you ship internationally? There's a good question.

Angela Fields 38:42
I am at this time, I'm shipping to North America, so Canada and Mexico, in addition to the US. And I do a few times a month get requests for it to go a bit further than that, and that cost of shipping is always the problem, because I look into it and check and yeah, I don't have enough international sales at this time to have a reasonable amount for to collect for shipping. I'm

Salena Knight 39:08
heading off to the US very, very shortly, so I will make sure to check out your products. If there are people who are listening, who are like, You know what I can understand that this could be working for my hair, and I am all for not having dry and brittle hair, or I'm going through menopause, or I really don't want fragrances, and I really want all natural ingredients. Where can they find your products?

Angela Fields 39:29
Absolutely so curly, coyly tresses.com. Is my website. I'm on Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok, Pinterest, LinkedIn. Now LinkedIn is my name Angela fields, and then also on YouTube, so curly quizzes everywhere except for LinkedIn. That's my name Angela fields, and so I receive orders from all of those different platforms, or just reaching out, because some of my customers have reached out and said, I don't really like shopping where I'm scared and. So I'll process the order while I'm on the phone with them. You know, that's

Salena Knight 40:03
wonderful. Well, thank you so much for sharing this journey, and thank you for being so open and transparent about we quite often talk about all the great things that happen, but sometimes we forget about the things that actually are still part of the journey. And quite often, it's those things that don't work that are what make you more successful moving forward. So thank you for sharing all of that with us.

Angela Fields 40:23
Thank you. Thank you so very much for the opportunity to meet with you and your and your customers, your guests, your listeners.

Salena Knight 40:32
So that's a wrap. I'd love to hear what insight you've gotten from this episode and how you're going to put it into action. If you're a social kind of person, follow me at the Selena Knight and make sure to leave a comment and let me know. And if this episode made you think a little bit differently, or gave you some inspiration, or perhaps gave you the kick that you needed to take action, then please take a couple of minutes to leave me a review on your platform of choice, because the more reviews the show gets, the more independent retail and E commerce stores just like yours that we can help to scale. And when that happens, it's a win for you, a win for your community and a win for your customers. I'll see you on the next episode.

Angela Fields, is an award-winning entrepreneur and Curl Restoration Coach. Driven by a traumatic experience with chemical burns from a relaxer, she founded CurlyCoilyTresses®️ and made waves in the natural hair care industry. Her innovative, fragrance-free products have been recognized by O Magazine and featured in Black Enterprise.

After years of mentoring and coaching other beauty brands, Angela is stepping deeper into the education space. Seeing a gap in the market for women over 50 she is committed to teaching women how to navigate hair health through menopause and beyond. The passion, energy and experience she brings as a guest is unparalleled. From her journey as an entrepreneur to overcoming alopecia, Angela’s story will educate, empower and inspire your audience.