Salena Knight 0:01
Hey there and welcome to the bringing business to retail podcast. If you're looking to get more sales, more customers, master your marketing and ultimately take control of your retail or E commerce business, then you're in the right place. I'm Selena Knight, a retail growth strategist and multi award winning store owner whose superpower is uncovering exactly what your business requires to move to the next level. I'll provide you with the strategies, the tools and the insight you need to scale your store. All you need to do is take action. Ready to get started.

Salena Knight 0:47
Hey there and welcome to the bring your business to retail podcast. Up until recently, I thought we had pretty good systems in place. We used project management software and tasks like the podcast. Had complete workflows built out. We had great communication, I thought, between the team and we were able to look at different tasks within our project management software and see what needed to be done and when it needed to be done. But even though, on the surface, we had all of these processes in place, I said I thought we had pretty good processes in place, multiple times a day, I would find myself getting angry and frustrated, and I'll be honest, downright pissed that the ball was being dropped time after time. Because, after all, this is my business, I am the face of the business. So if something goes out that isn't perfect, it reflects on me. If a podcast goes out and it hasn't been edited correctly, it reflects on me. If you download something and it doesn't work, it reflects on me. And as a result, I can say with hindsight, as a result of those processes not being in the state that I thought they would, looking back on 2024 I can see that we highly likely lost hundreds of 1000s of dollars in revenue because I was not confident that we could deliver if we launched anything new. 2024 for me, felt like I had a fire hose filling up a bucket and the water was running out because of the leaks faster than I could ever fill it. And honestly, it was exhausting, and it would be really easy for me to blame my team, and heck, there were times when I did blame the team, but the truth is, I am the leader, and if the wheels are falling off, I should have done something before it got this far. So fast forward to July, and I knew things had to change. We'd fallen behind in the simplest of projects because we were constantly waiting. We were waiting for someone to deliver something. We were waiting for graphics, we were waiting for podcast editing, we were waiting for someone on the team to build a funnel. It just everything seemed to be waiting for someone else so that we could get our job done, and you can probably hear even now the frustration in my voice, because even though we had this project management software, no one was really keeping track, or potentially the right person wasn't being notified when one task had been completed and it was time for the next person To start their part. So there was a lot of relying on notes or emails or WhatsApp communications or downright in our brains to know what needed to be done. And honestly, it was at this point that I felt like chucking it all in. Everything felt too hard. It just felt like everything I did took forever, and not just I, everything we did took forever, and it was never at the level or the quality that I wanted it to be at. And remember, this is my brand, right? So I have standards, and my standards are very, very high, and everybody on my team knows that we have high standards. So I knew I had to make a choice if I chose to say something had to change and for us to grow, about 90% of what was on my plate had to be taken off. And the obvious person for most of that was Joed Our business manager. I mean, after all, as the manager of the business, that's her job to take things off my plate. You see, the thing is, through a series of events over, I'm going to say, the course of a year or so, and through no one's particular fault, Joed had fallen into a position where she was essentially just checking off tasks. We would add them into Asana, and she would go ahead and do them. Now, in theory, this sounds good, but the reality is, in this scenario, it was generally falling on me to identify every single issue and then document it, and then create a task and then make sure it was done. So there was so much thinking and. Then the onus being on me to document it or add it into the project management software, and then for me to follow up. And what happened was that we slipped into this pattern of Sal being the dictator, Sal dictating, and everybody else just doing. And it was not because I felt like I needed to control. It was just a series of a whole bunch of external and internal events that made it easier for me to just be the person who was in charge. But the result of that was that my team was not empowered to think on their own, which at its heart was in direct opposition to our core values of owning it and thinking ahead, and so once I'd identified this issue, and let me be clear, it wasn't like I just woke up one day with the answer. It was a lot of whinging to my husband on walks. It was a lot of frustration. I had to take a really good, long, hard look at myself and admit that I had made mistakes, but once I got past that, and I realized that we were at this position again, where, if you've been listening to the podcast for a while, about three years ago, I had the same thing where everybody in the company either got fired or left, and I was back at ground zero, because what had gotten us here would not get us there. What had gotten us to there was not going to get us to where we are now and now we're at the same point. What got us to here is not going to get us to the next steps that I have mapped out for the business. Something had to change. And so I had a meeting with Joed, and I pulled out her original job description, and I asked her, I want you to be this person again. What do we have to do to get you back into this business manager role? We identified that our systems were lacking and we needed to hire a specialist person to pick up those specific tasks that were related to our day to day operations. Most of joed's time was going in basic tasks, or tasks that weren't management tasks, all of these things that happen inside of our CRM. And we also needed a full time marketing coordinator, not a part time one, because I was taking a lot of the marketing stuff on myself, just because it was quicker and easier for me to do so Joed was spending her days doing things like creating calendars or sending out emails that I'd written and that was not thinking ahead, that was not going to grow the business. Now, during all of this upheaval, I happened across a podcast where the host mentioned a book called come up for air by Nick Sonnenberg. I mean just the title, come up for air. How many times have we found ourselves saying, If I could, you know, I'll get to it when I come up for air, I'll get to it. When I come up for air, I'll, once I have some time and a moment to breathe, I'll get around to that. So the book is called come up for air by Nick Sonnenberg, and it was about creating an organization where knowledge is easily retrieved and hours every week are saved, and teams work harmoniously and productively. And I remember thinking, oh my gosh, that is exactly what we need. So I brought two copies of the book, one for me and one for Joed, and I said, let's read this together. We set ourselves targets to read three chapters a week and then report on how we could implement what we'd learned. We even went so far as to put an agenda inside of our management meetings, inside of Asana, so that we would make sure we didn't overlook this very important thing. It seemed like it was going to be easy. You needed a knowledge base, yep. Check we already had that. You needed project management software check. We've been using this for 10 years. You needed a team communication tool. Yep, we've got that. And you need an email. I mean, I honestly thought when I got the book, what can I learn? Because we have all of this, and I wouldn't be recording this podcast if I didn't learn a lot now, would I? Because little did I know that the fixing up our systems, a little bit of a Joed would almost lead to the implosion of this business. And so I have brought Joed on. She's very uncomfortable being in front of the camera, but I've brought her on to talk about the good, the bad, and honestly, the down right ugly of creating systems and processes that will scale your business so that you can learn from our mistakes and our frustrations and, of course, our wins. So Joed, for the first time ever, welcome to the bringing business to retail.

Unknown Speaker 9:35
Podcast, hey, Sal it's yeah, it's moon,

Salena Knight 9:39
usually on the other side of the camera, yes, yes.

Speaker 1 9:42
And that's, that's usually, like, how I prefer it. But this, this thing that we're going to be talking about, it's, as I've mentioned to you before, like, it's something like, it's like a baby type of thing for the company. So it is nice. It's, I'm really looking forward to talking about it with you. Well,

Salena Knight 9:59
thank. For getting out of your comfort zone to come on and share everything. So the last few months haven't been pretty, have they?

Speaker 1 10:06
No, it's, it's, I would say it's the most challenging that we've had. It is very, very confronting. But also, at the same time, I know that it's how you what you need to grow so. And as you mentioned, I did feel like sometimes, like, Oh, I'm just checking off tasks. So like, I know that this is not my job, but yeah, so that was, I know it was, yeah, it's not, it's not really pretty,

Salena Knight 10:33
no. So you were tasked as the business manager with implementing Nick Sonnenberg system. So can you just walk us through what it is for those people who probably haven't read the book? Because the funny thing is, I had never heard of I'm pretty I thought I was pretty up to date with books on systems and processes and entrepreneurship, and I had never heard about this book. So I'm guessing a lot of other people haven't either. So maybe you could just walk us through the system and then tell us, we'll get into how implementing it has has been a very big challenge. Yeah.

Speaker 1 11:08
So just to keep it simple, when I was reading the book, it is basically improving efficiency. But what's nice about the book is it did give you like step by step, as to like where to look at and how you can implement it in your system. So like improving communication tools and then making sure that you can find things easily. So these are things that can reduce the time that you take a look. So like the egg hunt, like, you know, the trash, there's no treasure finding, so we minimize that one so, and actually the book, it's the title of the book itself. Come up for air. Like, actually, when Sal brought it up during one of our meetings, I was like, that is actually sometimes the word that we the phrase that we use, but like, oh, okay, when we have some time to, you know, we have a break, and then we can take a look at our systems. Take a look at what we need to do. So it was actually very appropriate title for what it has actually going to bring to your company, because often times we do get in this cycle. So that one, it helps us keep things in check, and it's actually very easy to keep things in check with the help of the book. Yeah. So that's the basic system, like making sure everything you can find anything ever like, in one place, and then make sure that the communication happens where it needs to happen. So, like, that's like the basic of that book. Okay,

Salena Knight 12:36
so I went into asana and I looked at our first meeting to discuss. This was the ninth of August. We're now at the end of December, so essentially, five months we've been I'm going to say working on this, yes, working through this, might be a bit less way of looking at it. Did you think it would take

Speaker 1 12:56
this long, given our work around i given our time in terms of, like, reducing output, I didn't think it would take this long. I did, like, yeah, because, like, you know, like, for example, I mean, our funnels, we were able to check it out, like, Yeah, I know we said, like, it's long, but we still be able to check it out, like, a little bit faster compared to, like, other companies that I know. I never thought that it's going to take this long? Because I know that I've been documenting all those things on the back and on paper,

Salena Knight 13:26
we had the things right. We had the knowledge base, we had the training portal. We had we've been using project management software for 10 years. So on paper, we had all of the things

Unknown Speaker 13:38
correct. Where,

Salena Knight 13:40
I guess, where have we gone wrong? It's

Speaker 1 13:43
actually, I think, first of all, it's that thing that we think that, oh, we have everything. So it's going to be easy to just translate it into, like, the framework that come up for error suggest that Nick suggests so. And also, like, oh, we know how to use Asana. We have that mindset that we have these things we know what to do, like, oh, it's going to be easy to just roll out. It's going to be easy to create a KV Oh, we can do that. What I didn't know is, or, like, what I didn't think it's going to happen is that, like, once you start to really sit down on it, and then you start to think, Okay, how will people use it? How will we be able to, for example, roll it out. Where do we start, actually, I think it's where do we start, because we have all these things scattered around. So, like, starting, like, trying to come up, like, oh, okay, we have it in Google Docs. We have it in Asana. But like, which one are we going to use? So, like, the tools, like, so for me, it's where to start, even though the framework is there. But since we already have a lot of things, I think it would have been easier if you start from scratch. Like, for example, you're a new company, yeah, from you're a new company. You don't need to also do the day to day things and then do. It takes time to think, you know, like, how to map out these things. So I think that's where, for me it got, like, it got started ugly, thinking about shocks. Okay, if I am a new employee, where would I look, what do they need? And then, like, if I'm on the admin side, okay, what are the things that I need? So like, it's like, suddenly, all this, it's nice that I have all these ideas in my head because of that book, but at the same time, it's like, information overload, so trying to strip it down so that I can start was the challenge. And also I really felt pressured, because it's a big thing for the company, because it talks about helping our team members be more efficient. It's about making them improve their productivity. So it is something that will directly hit them if, like, if I do something wrong. So it's that pressure also so and it's, yeah, it's very challenging at the start.

Salena Knight 15:59
Okay, it's interesting. I hadn't really thought about it until you mentioned it, but one of the challenges that you had was you had to think of both sides of the story. So you had to think from the management side what needs to be done, and then from the team side, what do they need to be done? Because they're not the same thing. And so it's almost like two sets of processes for the same job have to be created and then work symbiotically,

Speaker 1 16:27
correct? Yeah, that's the reason why I also like to, I think during our meeting earlier this week, I was like, oh, Sal, I did this because, like, I realized, right? So it's like, okay, even if, like, I know that we always have, like, the admin side, and I mean the management side, and then the team side, since it is still a growing system, a growing, you know, a work in progress from time to time, I would still come up with, like, oh, we really need this. Because, like, at first I discussed this with you, and then you said, No, it's already in GHL. Like, they can go through the course, they can check it off and then. But like, as it's rolling out, you start to see, like, No, it's not enough. Like there needs to be some sort of system that we need to put on just to make sure that they will check it off. And then we'll be like, Oh, maybe that's why they do it that way, because it really needs an admin. So the good thing though, is like, at least now we do have some other inputs as well, so you're able to, like, you know, check it with somebody else as well, especially with the master class that you've been attending, you've been joining, it's really good to get feedback also it's and it's not just the two of us, like discussing, like, what needs to happen, because having somebody, or some, yeah, a group of people to talk to, to discuss things, is really nice. It's it gives you a different perspective. That's interesting.

Salena Knight 17:51
So what you're talking about there is the mastermind that I joined, and we did a podcast on that a few weeks ago. In fact, by the time this one goes to air, probably would have been a couple of months ago. And I talked about how I joined a mastermind, and this was after we had already started the journey of putting this system in place. And I remember the Jasmine's manager showing us the level of their Asana, and you and I just looking at it going, we don't have that, and we don't have that, and we don't have that. And it was these little things that, as you said, you kind of forget that you even do. And so when you start stepping things out for a proper, robust process, it probably needs to be reviewed by somebody before it goes live. So in our case, if we're creating a download, it gets written, and then it has to come to me for review, and then it goes back to the person to implement the revisions, and then it comes back to me to review. And we didn't have any of those things, we just had create the thing, yeah, and then it needed graphics. So then it goes to the graphics person, and then it comes back to be reviewed, and then it gets revisions, and all of a sudden, the thing that you thought had 20 steps, actually has probably 150 steps, yes.

Speaker 1 19:04
And also, because we did have that before. I mean, yes, we do have the the steps into it, like, for example, I do check, like I do check the quality of it, but because sometimes, like, if it's fast, remember, like, there will be times like, oh my god, Joed, we need to do this. We forget the checking like, sorely part. So because of that, you'll come back like, what is this? Why did you get so there is that frustration and and my mind is, like, disappointed in myself. It's like, I know I checked it, but of course, like, because I needed to think that I need to check it, even if it's that simple, having that extra space in the mind to occupy that you need to remember, that you need to check it, it already takes away a little bit of time from everything else. So that's why, like now, when I'm going through, like, our processes, it's now like, oh, okay, even if it's like, it's a very simple. Task as like checking, for example, make sure that it is like explicit content or something like that. It is better to put it there. There is, like no task so simple that you don't want to put in our template, because right now, my target is with which we which you've always told me as well. It's like, you want that if, for example, I decide to take a break, or, like, somebody from the team who does this takes a break, I can just jump in and then, like, follow the things so that they can proceed with doing that. And then nothing is going to be left behind. Nothing is going to be stopped just because this person is not going to come so, yeah, it's, it's those things like, no task is small that needs to be because initially, I think there will be times like, Oh, it feels like it's, it's a common sense, it's common sense, or like it's a default that you need to check this. And

Salena Knight 20:55
that's, I think you had a really good thing, a really good example just then. And this one only just happened, like when I was driving, literally, as I was driving home the other day, and I sent you a WhatsApp message and said, this was for the podcast workflow. And I said, Joed, we need a task to see whether I need to mark it as explicit or not when we upload the system, because if we've got some little salty words in there, we are supposed to make it very aware that that's the case, and there will be a little E and like you said, it's things that get done or, you know, just because you are so used to doing it. But if you're on holidays and Sam has to step in and do it, he wouldn't know to do that. And so even now, five months later, when we think we have something just about done, we're still finding bits and pieces where it's like, oh, we haven't done this and we haven't done that, and we've just had Cooper come on as our marketing coordinator, and he's asking questions, and we're like, Oh, we didn't have that either. And so I feel like I don't know if it'll ever be finished. I'm sure it will be but for probably the next three months, even just the thing we think is done will probably continue to be refined as we start to realize that, oh, we, I know yesterday you mentioned we can do things in tandem. So one person can be doing one thing, like the video could be editing while graphics people are doing the graphics like they don't have to wait one for the other. They can do in tandem. And we hadn't thought through that before, because we were so used to just doing what we always did. And I remember thinking when I read the book, how does this make you more productive? Is he just going to say, don't do meetings and meeting is are a whole other conversation that we can get into, that we've adopted. But I can see now why one. I'm not forever sending messages saying, Where do I find something which I think I used to do 20 times a day and two we can plan our days so much easier, because we know what we have to do. And one of the things that you just said about no task is too small, I think where the frustration lies as a business owner, is the disconnect between the outcome that we want and what we think needs to be done to get there. So if you've got a retail store, you think opening the shop should take five minutes, because that's what it takes you. But the reality is, the person has to come in, they have to turn on the lights. They might have to open the windows. They have to count the till, you know, they turn the cameras on. Like there's a whole bunch of things that maybe you hadn't thought about. Maybe they have to make sure that there's toilet paper in the toilet. Like there's so many little things that you just, you know, you just kind of take for granted. But actually, when you are required to get someone to work through the process. All of a sudden we still see, here's a gap, here's a gap, here's a gap, here's what we have to add in. This needs to come to sell, to review, this needs to go to Joed to review, all those sorts of things. And so I can see how you become more productive. Because nobody, well, not nobody, is waiting, but there's a lot less delay, asking and waiting. That's what I found.

Speaker 1 24:03
Yeah, I agree with that. When was that? Oh, remember when you asked me, like, for example, how, how long to build this funnel? I was

Salena Knight 24:13
going to ask you about this. So again, we work really fast as a team. We always have, and we're building out, um, by the time this goes live, it will already be live. But we've built out the this new profit calculator. And Joed, if they want to get it, where do they have to go? Selena knight.com,

Speaker 1 24:34
profit. Let's just go with profit. We haven't decided. So I'll put that in the key. I mean, I've looked at in the I'll put it in our Asana, so that every time we do that, we have a word for them. Yes. So if you want the

Salena Knight 24:47
calculator, you can grab that. But the other thing was, I wanted to know how long if I want to deploy something, how long does it really. Lead take. Because I remember saying to you, I think we should be able to do this within two days, and you said five days, and I'm like, I think we need to, we need to, like, write this down, because if you're right, I have to seriously change my expectations, because that is a huge difference. We're not talking an hour or two, we're talking two days to five days. And it means, if I get one of sales, great ideas that I want to implement, it is not something we can do in two days. It might take five days. So what are we doing right now to track this? Yeah,

Speaker 1 25:33
so right now, first of all, we also actually implemented, we started implementing clockify so that we can track the time that we build things. So since Sam has just been on boarded and then starting to get to know the system that is actually taking time as well, not just from him, from me too, but now at least, we get to see like, oh, okay, this is really very easy, as long as we have the template and then, like it's just checking off tasks. So actually, the very first version of our template, or opt in template, is is, I would say, 50% different from where we where it is right now, because when we were going through it, I know that I incident that, okay, let's just keep it this way first, because it's better to have something in place rather like, you know, like, I just realized it like, in the sense that I shouldn't overthink things, because as we go through it, we'll be able to refine things, because it is now like a hand in hand thing, like, there's experience and then there's the actual that you're going to put into. So now, yeah, so we have the clockify. We're using clockify to track the time that we do the task within, and then we have it in Asana, where in we have specified. So we have, like, planning. We have the development of the content. We have the development in terms of, like the technical development setup. So we have that. And then we start to add it, to add the dependencies. Also in Asana, as we go on, I can see now that, oh, okay, this needs to be checked off first before we can proceed with this. And then, for example, that first part alone, wherein we want to map out the customer journey. We want to write out the emails that you want. And I, I'm all for the segmentation and those type of things, but I know that it's going to take a lot. It take. It's going to take time to write out the journey and write out the customer the emails. So just that alone, it will take some time, even if, like, for example, the technical part is going to be fast, because as long as you have everything, it's going to be fast. But we didn't see that until we really went through this, like, initial phase of, like, implementing the type of template, and then doing this freebie, this, this opt in, and then seeing now, like, oh, okay, it's it's really going to take some time to get from, yeah, your expectation of two days, versus, versus my expectation, right? Because I maybe I'm thinking also, like, oh, because I need to sell to check off. And then, you know, like, of course, with the time zone and that things, I mean, that didn't add to the it added to the challenge, like, our time zones as well. So yeah, for now, it's really, I would say, clockify, and then Asana task, and then making sure, oh, the thing that I added also in our Asana is, since right now, we're still in our growing pains, in the sense that it is not very still easy to see, like where we are at. I did add like, one of the top like, just for checking so that that is like, where we see where we are at, in terms of, like, for example, your review as well for your check offs. So we did, I did add that just so like for you, because I know that for you, you wanted to see, like, where are we at right now, in just like one place. So I think in terms of system, like, for example, in Jasmine's team, they have a different system. But for us, this is our system, because this is like how your expectation work. So, so yeah, so that's how we are going about it, um, and as if and as what happened just right now, we identified that I needed to add that redirect in the in the in the template, because I never, yeah, right. So it's so it's because of those things that I get to see, like, Oh, where are the gaps? Where, where? Where are the cracks? And then now, as we go on, we are able to fill in the gap. So that is what we're doing right now. It's a constant work in progress. It's a constant like, and I would say, not being afraid to ask. So it took a while before, before. I mean, I know I ask you stuff, but if it's these things, like, because sometimes I would think, like. Ah, this seems like a very easy question. Do I really need to ask? So usually, those are the things that go through my head. But now, like in my mind, instead of wasting a minute to think, minute to think about that, I'll just ask Sal I mean, it's just an easy yes or no, and even if she says it's common sense to say yes, in my mind, at least she answered my question. So, so that's how I think about it. Right now.

Salena Knight 30:24
You were just talking about the fact that we've been building out this profit calculator, and I'm trying to relate it back to the people who are listening. So the way we're trying to relate this back to the people who are listening is a really good example is a product launch. You don't just launch a product or a promotion, there are so many steps, and in fact, we step a lot of those out in the ultimate promo run sheet. But right back to thinking of the promotion, and then contacting the supplier. And then once you've got that confirmation, you have to order the products, and then you have the graphics, and then you have the emails, and then someone has to upload them to the website, and then you may have to move them around in store, and then things also have to be reviewed all the way through there. And there are so many steps that we just take for granted. And even as I'm saying it, I'm thinking there's many steps in between those that need to be taken into account. And so we think we can just, you know, I'll just run a promotion next week, but in actual fact, to do a promotion correctly, or to, sorry, let's retract that and say, to do a promotion that gets you the biggest return on your investment is not generally something that you just throw out overnight. It's something that you have taken the time to create and then implement and set goals and targets for, and then deployed, and then come back and debriefed. And there are so many people who are responsible for all those bits and pieces. And even if it is just you, if you're working on your own, there are so many, so many intricate little pieces of that puzzle that if you don't know how long each of those take, then we severely underestimate what it's going to take to get the job done. And I know that for me, because I work so fast that that's probably the biggest eye opener for me, is things aren't as quick as I think they are.

Speaker 1 32:16
Correct? Yes, and it's fine, like for me, like, there are things that Okay, right now, since, for example, me, I'm working with Sam and Cooper, right? So, like, for example, if Sam is going to ask me something, in my mind, okay, this is going to be easier if I just go in and do it. But also that doesn't but in my mind, also, like, but if I do that and he starts to rely on that as well, then we're not really improving the process. We're not

Salena Knight 32:46
we're going to end up exactly where we were earlier on this year. Yes, correct.

Speaker 1 32:49
So, so rather than do it that way, I actually had, like, I would say, a change in mindset, in the sense that, okay, now, what are the things that Sam would need so that he can deliver that part of what I need. Like, I know, like the first part, it's going to be tedious, because if ever I need to record the video, I need to, aside from put out the asana task, it would also be better. So, like, really what I'm doing? Um, so in, in in it, there's what you call pair programming, wherein, like, you sit side by side, if you're together, in one space, and then, like you do pair programming, so that it's a little bit faster. So that's it's because it's two brains in in one, right? So right now, that's what I'm trying to do with Sam, in the sense that when he's working, he has questions I get to actually get the information I need to put in our template, and then also I get to give him what he needs in terms of, like, being able so, like, even if at this point I need to do that, I take that opportunity to be able to enrich our template step by step. Because now I would see, oh, okay, I just do it, because that's my default. Like, like, for example, I know that Sal wants the images to be lined up. Like, in my mind, it's automatic I will touch this one. But I did think that it was an automatic thing for me. But for with Sam, I needed to tell him. So it's like, okay, so in the checklist, I need to put there, like, make sure that the images are aligned, make sure that the capitalization or this and that, and then he needs to make sure that he reads the email as well. It's not like just a plain copy paste. So those type of things I would only really see from somebody outside, because I think that's, that's what you're saying as well, right? When you mentioned that opening a store is totally different from your expectation versus the people who would be doing it. So that, for me, that is the explanation, also on my side, like looking at it. Oh, okay, so that's what he needs. And then for me, okay, so that's what I need to provide them, so that it will be easier for him to do it, and having our checklist right now, because I also still have stuff to do. Like, you know, think of what the things I need to check off in the morning, and those that I know, it took a while for me to get there as well, but being able to remove thinking what you need to do. And just like, you know, be able to go into asana and see, oh, these are the things that I need to do today, it takes such a big chunk of relief that you have somewhere that I you can go. So,

Salena Knight 35:36
yeah, so you're talking about, you created a beginning of day and end of day checklist inside of Asana. And you kept saying to me, but I write it down in my notebook. I write it down in my notebook, and I said, but I don't get to see your notebook. And so I go in there and I think you've got this much work, but your notebook says you've got this much work. And so by putting the beginning of day and end of day in there as just if nothing else aside, what you're saying is the mental load of, you know, I don't have my notebook with me, or I remember I said, I tell I told Sal I would get this thing done. All that goes away because it just sits there and you just work through it.

Speaker 1 36:13
Yes, yes, yeah. So, like, even if I know that, I still have, like, Bucha logs, it's easy for me to see that. Okay, this Okay, okay. I think I have, like, two hours that I can spare today. I can easily get a task and then start to work on it, and then move on. So I don't need to think about it. You know, that extra step of, like, thinking, what, what is it that Sal wanted to do right now? Like, and then, especially since we came up, like, if it's urgent, like, there's urgent. So like, because especially, I think, if, example, we have something urgent, and then your mindset would suddenly need to change, because you need to attend to that. And then you tend to, for drop the other things that you're doing, going back to the things that you were originally doing. It will take time also, but if you have it in Asana, okay, I can just easily go back and see, okay, where was I at earlier? So, so I think that is like, that is the beauty of Asana for us right now.

Salena Knight 37:14
So you mentioned something there that I think was you and I both have probably significantly changed the way we operate, which is making sure we are really clear when we dictate the outcome that we want, because we have worked together so well, and we've had Elizabeth, and we've had such a small team that worked so well together, we quite often know what The other person wants. But now having working with external contractors and having new hires, what we've realized is, I can't say create an image anymore. What I need to be is very, very clear. I would like three images that say this and do this and at this size. And in fact, you said to me, I need an image. And the first thing I said was, where is it going? How big does it need to be? What resolution? If I don't have that in, then have friction again, and we're waiting for the other person to come back and answer the question, whereas now we're getting we're getting much more clearer about putting as much information as possible into the task, so that the person at the other end isn't waiting on us to come back and answer a question, correct?

Speaker 1 38:24
So, yeah, so that shaves off time. So actually, in the book, I think you did give an example, like, even if it's those small tasks, because it piles up. So the time that you spend on thinking of those things and then asking and waiting, it piles up and it becomes larger. So that's why, like, the the time gets longer as well. So, but if we have it already there. So right now, for example, I would like add in our Asana, not just like the task, but inside the task. If, for example, there needs to be like information needed to be filled up, I'll add it in like, for example, if it's an image, like, what would be the specs? What would be like, how many images, those, those type of things, so even

Salena Knight 39:07
the pages going on. So, so we can go back and have a look like, it needs to fit in with this,

Speaker 1 39:13
yes, correct. And also, for example, in in terms of, like, the template that we use, like, where our master copy, for example, the download that we're going to build, it has also improved over the course of by, I would say, just a month, just because we thought that, like, okay, as long as you have the headline, as long as you have the sub the sub headline, those types of the sub header, and then the image, Like, it's going to be easy to translate. But what we found out is like, Okay, if we just do this, it's not really going to translate to what we have in our mind. So now, and I was like, Okay, what are and then you said, like, Oh, can you have like, an image where you say that this is where it goes. I was like, and then actually, I was like, Okay. Google, what are like the parts of a landing page, like, it's like, and then when I look at this, oh, so it's generic, like, in my mind, it's like, oh, it's generic. And like, it's really looks like that for across different, different companies. So when, then, when I take a look at ours, I was like, oh, okay, I can easily now identify and now in our template, we do have that, we do have that, that image, that screenshot, and then, like, where it goes so, and I also explained it actually to Cooper, like, Okay, so here's a sample of the template. So just in case you get confused, like, in the first part we're in, like, it says landing page. Like, this is the sample of, like, the anatomy, a landing page. And then so that in your copy you can just specify, and if there's something else that you want, then you just need to specify in terms of, like, either a video or or a screen cap of what you need done that's not in the template. So, like, it's quite easy. Like, right now it's not quite it's easier to ask people for stuff, especially for those things, because now they have a visual, okay, it's supposed to go here. Because initially what we have is like, Oh, just give them a sample. Or, like, just give them, yeah, just give them our old page. Usually, that's our answer, right? Yeah. But whereas it

Salena Knight 41:16
did, like an equivalent would be, is if you were building out a product page on your website. You know these, this is the image I want first. Maybe it's the flat light image. The second image should be a lifestyle image. The third image should be a close up. And then when it comes to, you know, the headline and what is the first what does the first first paragraph contain? What does the second paragraph contain? So that if somebody new comes into your business, if you grow your business, there's a very standard template. Yes, the words are going to change, but the content still delivers at the same at the same level on every single product page. And people aren't just trying, because people will try their hardest, but they don't know if they're getting it wrong, if they don't have the end goal and the end result, and this is what a successful thing looks like. Yes.

Speaker 1 42:04
And speaking of hardest, I remember I had this conversation with Sam because he was saying, like, Oh, I did this because the task that you that I was supposed to do is very easy. And I was like, No, that's what we want. That's why we are templating things, and because we want it easy. So in the sense that it's not that we're lazy being lazy, it's that we want to get things, a lot of things done if we want to reach a certain for example, in sales for your product, if you want to be able to launch your products this fast, we want to be able to put this new product. You want to be able to be the first one to put this out in your website, right? You want it to be able to be uploaded as fast as you can. And how can you do that? If you were like, thinking, Oh, what is the next image that I need? Unlike, for example, if you give somebody like, Okay, this is the list of images that take the photo, send it out, edit so it's a little bit faster. You get to be first in terms of delivering that product to your customers as well. So easy doesn't mean lazy. It's really just easy. Easy is like being more efficient for me right now. I mean in terms of come up this framework,

Salena Knight 43:19
yeah. Easy does not mean easy at the beginning. Yes. Alright, yeah, tell me. What do you Let's go Good, let's go ugly, bad, good. What do you think has been the ugliest moment over the last few months?

Speaker 1 43:36
Oh, the ugliest moment would be like when, because I'm still thinking and overthinking things, and I can't give you like the exact update of, like, where I am at in terms of rolling it out, because it was because, as I mentioned, like starting, even if we have these things out, starting and putting it out. And I know. And yeah. So that is, like the most frustrating for me, because in my mind, I know that I should be able to because I love processes. I love systems. So in my mind, why is it not coming to me, like, I mean, like I go through or I go through my Google Docs, I go through it's like, it's here. Why can't I put it together. Why can't I what? There's always that, why? So I would say, and then, like, you would ask me, and I was like, I know that I'm still thinking. But of course, thinking isn't equivalent to being able to see something that you can check on. That is would be like, for me, the ugliest because, because it feel, of course, on your side, it would feel like I'm not working, but on my side, it's like I'm racking my brains out. My brain is fried from thinking of these things. For me, the good from that one though, is, I would say you always try to help me, like, clear out a. Step. So it was when you told me, like, why did we try to do a mind map of it? So that really helped me. So actually, I really appreciate, even if it's those small things, like, I really appreciate those comments because or those suggestions because I'm saying, oh, and then, actually, after that one, it was a lot faster. I mean, it's still not fast, but it was a lot faster compared to, like, being so lost in in it all and so overwhelming. I was able to, Oh, okay. And then, like, we were able to at least start to this and say Oh. And then I would be able to ask you, Oh, does it make sense if it's here, or then you say, Oh, I think you might put so at least now there is something tangible so so that I would say it was like a transition period for us when I was able to calm my mind, you know, write it out, map it out. So I really, really appreciate moments like that with you. Because actually that time I really thought, like, Okay, I'm really going to claim it like, Sal is my mentor in terms of these things. So because I see you know that I do have my own business. So it's, it's very, very like, helpful. Like, okay, this, because what I saw there Sal is that you don't, even if you are frustrated with me, you still don't want me to fail. So I really super appreciate that part, because, like, I'm frustrated at myself, but since you're the leader, you know that, okay, she's already frustrated with herself. I cannot, you know, put her down. Like, how can I help her get to where I want her to be as well. So you, I'm just going to

Salena Knight 46:43
jump in here. You make me sound really easy, but we have had some very heated discussions. Yes, pretty so guys, it's not like, South is an angel. We have had some very, very heated discussions where we've had to, just like, walk away, because it wasn't, it wasn't productive. We were just kind of blaming and we were getting angry with each other, and I was feeling bad, and you were feeling bad, and it was just like, we just have to stop. And then, yeah, back later. So it was not like, Sal is an angel. Guys, trust me, there have been some very, very messy moments along the way, yes,

Speaker 1 47:21
yes, yes, yeah, but it's just that now, like, for me, it's more of like, appreciating those moments, because I think those were needed. Because it also, like, not just me, but I think it also helped you become, I would say, the way that you address issues right now, it has also changed over the past. Actually, I think it's all, it's all more than two years that we've been working together. So it has changed, like when I first started, and then like when we're just, you know, trying to get day by day. But now it's really also like trying to take care of the morale of the team. So it, it has, yes, it has, it's, it was ugly, but no company would not have that type, especially no business that would want to succeed would never, ever have something like that, like you would always need that, because that is a catalyst for change. And change is not always pretty. It, it will definitely go through some fire. And

Salena Knight 48:22
I think that this is where many businesses and I said it like, I said it at the beginning was there was a time where I just went, I don't know if I want to do this anymore. This is just to like, we need people. We can't find people. The systems aren't working. We're behind, like, I didn't know if there was an out, but I had an option. It was like, you keep going, or you throw everything away. And, like, it's like, do you throw everything away just because something got really, really hard? I mean, yes, some people will. Some people aren't, aren't entrepreneurs. They aren't cut out for running a business. But just was it yesterday that we had our call and you were talking about this, and you were smiling and you were laughing, and you're like, This is, like, one of the best things we've done. So I guess in just in 60 seconds, tell us where, like, where are we at, and how do you feel? Now, first

Speaker 1 49:20
of all, as I've mentioned yesterday, right now it is I am feeling empowered just because right now, yes, the systems are still not 100% but even if it's not 100% I know that it's working, and I know that we are working together to get it to where we want it to be. So it is in place. We now know we can easily see, like, Oh, these are the things that we need. So it is now easy to build out. And then once you get this, the ball rolling, like, it's now easy, like, for example, I translated that to the podcast, I translated that to the team onboarding, and then in my mind, like. Oh, I'm listing all the different things that we need templated and those type of things to make our lives easier. And I, as I mentioned to Sal what I want to do is to be able to take things off our plate so she can focus on making us money and helping other people along the way, because that's her goal. Actually, that's the reason why, like, I really like, when I apply for your company is because your goal is to help. I think it was like 50,000 retailers. That was your number before. We're not sure if that's still the other, yeah, yeah, bigger now, right. So it's like, wow. Like, I mean, yes, she wants to grow a business, but that wanting to help other people succeed, it's different. It's different. It's not just about her making money. So it's the same thing. And for me, that's the reason why I'm feeling empowered. Because now, like, if we get things done faster, we get to reach to other people a lot more faster. Also we get to help, even if I'm on the background, which I prefer, I get to help these people in my own way, through the background. So yeah, we're not 100% there yet, but we are definitely, I would say at least 50% because we have started to put the the things in place. We have the KB that is working, and then we just really need to add stuff as we go along. And then the templates, we are already starting to template things, and it gets the job done easier for our team members as well.

Salena Knight 51:34
Alright. So what one piece of advice? First of all, thank you for coming out and being outside of your comfort zone and getting on camera. But what one piece of advice would you want people who are listening to take away

Speaker 1 51:46
one piece of advice? So this is challenging, but for me, I think, um, try not to overthink things. I know it's It sounds easy, but if you need a sound board, just talk to either your superior, your boss or, like, friends as a start, that really helps, because if it weren't for our talks, we I won't be able to tell you, like, why I'm not do, like, it's not that I'm not doing anything, it's where, why I'm not being why I haven't Been able to start. So, yeah, communication is key, yeah, I think that is it always

Salena Knight 52:23
rip up the first draft, but you need to first draft

Speaker 1 52:27
Correct, yeah, like you need to have that first draft so that you can improve on that one. Yeah, awesome.

Salena Knight 52:34
Thank you. Thanks. Al, when I work with retail and E commerce, store owners who want to sell their businesses, I tell them that it takes a minimum, even if you work super fast, even if you think you already have processes in place, it takes a minimum of 18 months to get your business to a point where you can sell. And most people do not believe me, and most businesses do not have the level of systems and processes in place. That meant, if they sold today, if someone came up and wrote the check of your dreams, that the person who bought that business could walk in and everything would be seamless. They don't have that. They think, like I did, that. They have that. But the reality is, it doesn't take much to get someone else to go through your system who's never done the thing before through your process and see if they end up with the exact same result every single time we move fast in our business, it is in our job descriptions. It is one of the things that we do when we put people through our on our application process, and we when we on board, we have a schedule for people to move fast. That's just the way I like to work. But in five months, we have only just managed to get to a stage where we but like Joed said, we are only at 50% and we are at 50% of probably 20% of what we need to do that we know about. I suspect there is 80% more that we haven't even thought about that needs to be done. So in five months, we're at 50% I reckon it's going to take another, you know, two years, to get to the point where we're really, really happy with the systems and processes in our business, and so whether you're overwhelmed, whether you're thinking that maybe you would love to sell your business one day, or whether you just want to free up some mental bandwidth and have people take stuff off your plate, I really hope that this episode has been insightful for you, because, hilariously enough, it took us a month to record this episode. Yes, for Fridays, we had this call booked in, and every Thursday afternoon, I would move it because I didn't think we were at a point where we could get on and do this podcast. And. Feel like we'd even had a moment of success. And then yesterday, just yesterday, in my call with Joed, the transformation was absolutely astounding. She got on that call, and she was so excited to tell me all of the things that she'd done and all of the ideas she was having, and I hadn't seen that spark for quite some time, and so until I knew that we could do this podcast and relay back to you that it is a success, and there is 100% light at the end of the tunnel. But you know what, there's a really good chance that it's going to be a very, very messy in the middle that I didn't want to record that podcast. So I hope that this podcast has been insightful for you, and if you need any help putting all these systems in place for your business, if you need help to scale and grow, send me a DM. I would love it if you could share this episode with another business owner, and I look forward to seeing you back here again next week. And I hope that 2025, is all that you want it to be. So that's a wrap. I'd love to hear what insight you've gotten from this episode and how you're going to put it into action. If you're a social kind of person, follow me at the Selena and make sure to leave a comment and let me know. And if this episode made you think a little bit differently, or gave you some inspiration, or perhaps gave you the kick that you needed to take action, then please take a couple of minutes to leave me a review on your platform of choice, because the more reviews the show gets, the more independent retail and E commerce stores Just like yours, that we can help to scale, and when that happens, it's a win for you, a win for your community and a win for your customers. I'll see you on the next episode.