Angry Customer to High Paying Client – Mastering Positive Conflict – Nate Regier

NATE rec



“Each conflict is unique! "



What positive conflict versus negative conflict is. [05;11]

Conflict is just energy and energy moves. Learn how Nate know whether it's unhealthy or positive and how Nate change it around so that it is positive? [09:22]

Listen to the conflict story with customer service issue that Nate has quite some time ago [17:03]

Retailers, listen the role plays for some specific examples and learn how to react in a specific situation when you have a disaffected customer [25:12]

nate square


Salena: Hey there and welcome to this week's episode of the bring business to retail podcast. Today's guest is Nate. He's a former practicing psychologist. He's got a doctorate in clinical psychologist in Social, emotional intelligence and leadership, positive conflict. And that's something that my head was really thinking about. Leadership, mind, body, spirit, health, neuro psychology, just to name a few. This guy is the business when it comes to all stuff brain related. And today we are going to be talking about conflict and customer service and a whole bunch of other stuff. So welcome to the show Nate.

Nate: It is great to be here Selena, happy to be with you and your audience.

Salena: You have a lot of things that you are an expert in.

Nate: Well, I need to shorten that because every time I get that read, I get overwhelmed by whatever I'm supposed to know or do. And that's why I call myself a recovering psychologist.

Salena: I like that, I like that. Well the positive conflict, I got a little bit tongue tied on that one. SO before we jump into what is the difference between positive conflict and negative conflict, tell us a little bit about what you do now that you are a recovering psychologist.

Nate: Well, yeah, I'm in a leadership development field and I specifically am very interest in interpersonal communication and conflict. As a psychologist I learned a lot about how the brain works, how people relate to one another, the psychology of behaviour and groups. And now as a CEO of Next element consulting, we want to apply those skills to helping leaders and helping teams maximize those seconds by seconds interactions with each other so that they can be connecting, they can be relating to each other, resolving conflict well and leveraging all that energy that comes with being diverse and being different from each other.

Salena: So we are not necessarily talking about behaviour, is that correct? I'm really interest in what positive conflict versus negative conflict is. So let's jump into that because my brain is just trying to work out how you can have positive conflict.

Nate: That's a great question and we are talking about behaviour and we are talking about the beliefs and attitudes that come behind it and the emotions that come behind behaviour. So I grew up the son of missionary parents in Africa So my whole growing up was around an ethos of peace and non-violence and helping people and doing everything you can to help everybody be happy. And as I grow older, I saw more and more significant conflict in the world, I really started struggling with how can we... it seems like the only way to keep the peace sometimes is just to avoid conflict. And is there a way to reconcile the two. And when we look as a professional development person, now I see a lot of models out there that talk about conflict this, and conflict management conflict mediation. And if you Google the word conflict, all the stuff that pops up along with it are words like; management, mediation, reduction. That makes conflict like it's the bad guy. Like it's supposed to be gotten rid of and I just don't buy that. Because in our experience conflict is purely energy. All it is, is the gap between what I want and what I'm experiencing at any given point in time. And so the real question becomes, not as conflicts good or bad, but how are we going to use that energy.

Salena: I have so many questions already, the first one is, let's just take it away from conflict and where it's going for a moment. But growing up in Africa, did you struggle? And now that you are focusing on conflict, looking back. Do you struggle with what you saw in the world then? Because I imagine being missionary parents you are helping people in quite dire situations versus what you are teaching now. Have you taken your experiences from when you were a child in that situation and used it to further what you are learning and teaching nowadays?

Nate: I am, yeah, and I experienced everything from extreme poverty to incredible military violence in Southern Africa during apartheid when Nelson Mandela was still in prison. And so how people deal with differences and disagreements is something I've seen being misused so much in my life. I also had fantastic role models though. My parents and a couple mentors that I had were great examples of engaging people that were different around disagreements in a way that preserved their dignity. So I think even today that I'm working with leaders that are dealing with difficult situations or customer service, I don't think the dynamics were that different. It's just that the stakes are higher.

Salena: And they were so much more extreme. Do you sometimes wonder if that was the catalyst for where you are now?

Nate: I don't wonder, I know and I've received feedback from people that know me really well when they've read my book. And they say Nate, this is your journey, you've told your story in this book. ANd I don't think I set out to do that. But at age fifty, sharing kind of where I'm at in my life and my philosophy on things and the methods that my company has developed. I guess it is a combination of all my experiences. So yea, the seeds have been planted and they've been nurtured a lot along the way.

Salena: Not that that's what we are here to talk about, but isn't it funny where those experiences when you are having them can seem so dire and so formulative that you can almost block them out. Because they are quite traumatic but yet all those years later it puts you on the path to do what you are doing now and helping people with this unhealthy conflict versus healthy conflict, which is where we are going. So let's get back into that conversation. You said conflict is just energy and energy moves. So how do you know whether it's unhealthy or positive and how do you change it around so that it is positive?

Nate: Great question, and that is the question. And to answer that, we did a lot of research on the concept of drama and there is a lot of great work that have been done in drama. And one them is by a researcher called by the name of doctor Stephen  Cartment. He developed a model called the drama triangle. And it outlines three roles that people play when we fall into behaviours that are unhealthy. And each of these roles that they all share in common is that they are using the energy of this gap, this conflict energy to feel justified about their own negative behaviour. That's the only outcome. And so the persecutor role in the drama triangle believes I am okay and you are not because you are lazy, you are stupid, you are uncommitted, you are late whatever. And so their attitude allows them to mistreat people because they are okay and other people are not okay. The victim role, on the other hand, takes just the opposite view and they assume oh, I'm not okay, and everybody else is okay. So that makes it okay for everyone to mistreat me and I won't speak up or set boundaries or take care of myself. And then the third role is the rescuer and they make a living out of helping everyone else except themselves. And so they think that God appointed them the experts on everyone else

s life and problems. And they thrive off of giving unsolicited advice and acting like they know what's best for everyone else.

And so all three of these roles play off each other in drama and all of them are simply misguided attempts to close the gap between what we are experiencing and what we want. And the reason is that it's such an energy vampire and so draining for companies and for relationships is that all of our mental energy is being spent trying to feel justified instead of trying to produce anything constructive. So the one statement if people ask me how do I know that I'm in drama? Here's how you know, if you are looking for a reason to say, see, you're in drama. And every single role wants to say it. The victim wants to say, see, I know nobody cared about me. See, I always lose. The persecutor wants to say, see, you can't trust people. See, I knew you would never amount to anything. And then the rescuer wants to say, see, how much you appreciate my help. See how smart I am. See how much you need me. That's drama.

Salena: That's interesting, so how do you turn this into a positive because I am just really struggling with this concept. Because like you said earlier on, the word conflict has always been associated with negative experiences and negative situations. So how can you turn this to be positive?

Nate: Well what you said about negative associations is the first step because I'm just like you. And most people have had very negative associations with conflict because we have experienced people playing one of those drama roles in our life. And it never turns out well. So why would we think conflict is a good thing? And so the first step is to reframe conflict as energy and realize it has incredible potential to do something. And then the second thing is to defeat these myths that conflict is bad and people get hurt. I mean the only way we can do that is to start, is why we have gone back to the word compassion. Because the word compassion doesn't just mean my heart goes out to you. I care so much. I'm going to help you. I am going to like your cause on Facebook and I'm going to send money to starving children in Africa. That's not compassion. Compassion comes from the Latin root that means co-suffer. Com means with and passion means to suffer or to struggle. So compassion means to suffer or struggle with. Whereas drama means to struggle against. and so now we really see what is going on here, is the struggle, it's all about the struggle. The question is, are we going to do it against or are we going to do it with. So the first attitude shift is, do I want to struggle against this person to feel justified or do I want to struggle with him to create something amazing.

Salena: So you are saying that you have to change your mentality to be more of, I guess we learn that it be more like a win-win situation. You almost have to give in or you have to see it from their point of view and try and come to an agreement with you are both happy with the outcome?

Nate: Yeah and the outcome is not necessarily absence of conflict. So there is three key strategies and they have to do with this model we call the compassion cycle. And we can't do this compassion thing without practicing three new skills. The first one is openness, the second one is resourcefulness and the third one is persistence. So if we want to transform the way we do conflict, the first thing we have to do is get open. And open means being transparently courageous. It means being honest about your feelings, being honest about your motives. Because how many people in conflict immediately start to shut down, shut up, withhold information, don't tell the truth and they don't reveal their motives because they feel like that would somehow open them up to getting hurt. And so it is very counter-intuitive. But the very first thing to do is get open, get vulnerable because that sends the message to the other person. Nobody is going to get hurt here and my intentions are not to hurt you. Resourcefulness then is about creative problem-solving. And only when we are open do we learn about what's really going on and what we really need and really want. So that when we get tot resourcefulness we can get creative about getting all the resources out on the table and working together towards a shared solution. The persistence then is critical because we have to figure out what are our boundaries? What are our non-negotiables?  What is this really about at a level of kind of principles? And once we can talk about those things we can see what it is we are striving for and what we are trying to honour through our behaviour. And so when we practice open resourceful, persistent problem-solving with people in conflict. We get the real stuff out on the table. We feel safe working with each other and then we honour what matters most instead of all of the junk. that we throw on the table in drama.

Salena: Okay, so let's give us some examples. I think the easiest way to get retailers to think about how this would work in their business is to put it inside the customer service role. And I know that I read your story on your blog about your customer service issue that you had quite some time ago. But if you can share it with us so that we can relate because when I read it I was thinking, your situation was a lot more stressful than mine but even just recently, I went to a store in America. And of course you don't know where anything is because all the brands are different. And I remember asking where was peanut butter or something like that. And she said it's in that aisle. I didn't even know what aisle I was in. I didn't know if the aisle was left or it was right. Was it going to be at the top or at the bottom? And so I was actually more overwhelmed with her telling me that it was in an aisle. And I was like now I have to figure out how to get there. So how about you sharing your story. And just tell us where the conflict is in that and how you think that could be maybe have been changed so that it was a much more peaceful outcome.

Nate: I will, I'll share the story and it's a pretty significant situation. But after I tell the story I will draw parallels because we experience the same dynamics every day as customers trying to interact with people who have something for us. So the story began, I was just married and we were living near Seattle Washington. My wife and I Julie and our first daughter had just been borned. Her name was Lauren and this was in... we are all alone just the two of us, had a baby, scared to death, facing the world on our own and our first child had an incredibly bad case of jaundice. So she was yellow coming out of the hospital. And of course we were terrified. We don't know what it means. And things were made worse by the doctor telling us that her billy Ruben levels were significantly high and if it goes up she could face liver damage. So they send us home with all of this equipment and home health service came in. And they are called billy lights and they are these natural light that are supposed to reduce billy Ruben level by putting light through the skin.


So we had our poor little baby Lauren wrapped up in all of these blankets and lights on her and she hated it. It was terribly uncomfortable and we are taking turns watching her making sure everything is working and making sure she is all wrapped up. Because every minute without the blanket she could become toxic. So one night late I was on night shift with her and I was laying underneath her cradle rocking it and I had fallen asleep. And I woke up and looked up and it was dark and I'm used to seeing a glow come out of the crib from these billy lights. And so I kind of freaked out and I looked and I checked things and I could get it to turn back on. I checked the plugin and I checked the switch and they wouldn't come on. And I started to panic, I was thinking oh no you know every minutes that goes by again her liver could be damaged. I don't know what to do. So finally I thought, I'm just going to call the home health agency customer service, they gave me a card. And 24/7. SO I called them and when the gentleman picked up th phone on the other end I said, I don't know what to do. I'm freaking out, my daughter, I can hardly breathe. And I said and the billy lights won't work, blah-blah-blah. And when I stopped to take a breath, here is what I heard on the other end. He said sir, is the machine plugged in

Salena: Ah, don't we hate that question.

Nate: Oh my gosh, I could have crawled through the phone line and strangled this person. And I harboured this resentment for 21 years before I wrote this blog that you read. And when I was writing this article I finally realized, I can't blame him. He's just doing what every good customer service person is supposed to do. He has a list of statistically the most common problems, what is the solution and he's just working his list. He is just doing what anyone is supposed to do. And try to help solve the problem. But here is the problem, he was not solving the real problem. The real problem was my emotional distress and I was scared to death. The real problem wasn't the technical issues with the billy lights. It was the gap that was caused between what I wanted and what I was experiencing. And so he made what I believe is the cardinal sin of customer service which is you start at resourcefulness by trying to solve a problem without starting an openness and getting real about the emotions involved. And so I was very angry with him, I couldn't hear him. I thought he didn't want to help me. And so his ability to help me problem solve was greatly reduced. My ability to be a helpful person on the other end of the line was greatly reduced. And so that was significant to me and I have used it as a principle for customer service that finally makes a lot more sense now in the context of open resourceful persistence in the compassion cycle.

Salena: So if he would have started with openness what do you think he could have said instead of is it plugged in?

Nate: Here is what I would have liked. If I was training him today, I would have trained him instead of working off a technical list I would have trained him, first thing you do is recognize if the person is in drama, and I was. I was playing the victim role because I don't know what to do, I'm freaking out. And the very first thing you do is start it open by empathizing, go to resourceful and offer to be a resource. Go to persistent and make a commitment to the customer, and it would have sounded like this. Sir, I can't even imagine how scared you must be, I don't have any children and so I can't relate but you sound incredibly scared. I'd love to spend some time with you going through a checklist so we can figure out what's the problem. And I just want you to know, I promise to stick with you until we have this solved. How does that sound?

Salena: You know that is so good. I tell you I think that it's almost as bad as, is it plugged in? Is these especially offshore customer service centres where they say, I hear that you are saying that you are upset with your lights not working. Okay, I get that, that's a whole psychology thing and you've got a script you are supposed to repeat back to me that you've understood the problem. But you don't hear me, you are just following this script.

Nate: Well, and it's so mechanical and it's so technical and it's so cognitive. There is nothing emotional about that.

Salena: No, it's literally somebody told them that they have to repeat this phrase to say that they've understood your problem but they really don't care. And here is something I have learned in my 28 something years in customer service and customer experience is, when someone is angry at you, 99.9% of the time they are not angry at you. They are angry at some other thing in their life that happened. And the thing that you sell them that didn't work or didn't finish or something that you did that upset them was just the trigger for everything else happening in their lives.

Nate: Absolutely, and they are angry because of the gap between what they want and what they are experiencing. And there is nothing wrong or irrational about that. Now maybe what they expect is irrational but the gap is real and the emotion is real. And if we don't acknowledge that we can't make progress with them because they can't hear us. It's kind of like they don't care how much we know until they know how much we care. And so I had a great experience recently, I called my cable TV and internet company because I was having some problems with connectivity. And I called them and they picked up the phone and they said how can I help you? And I said I'm having problems with my internet and it keeps dropping my skype calls and I'm trying to have these podcasts. And here is what he said, sir, that's got to be so frustrating because you've got work to do and you need your internet to be working. Can I ask you some questions and do some troubleshooting and I promise we'll get this resolved. We'll make it right before I hang up. How does that sound?

Salena: That is so much better isn't it. I was stunned when you said we are experiencing cable company because those two words do not go together in what situation.

Nate: Well he is fabulous, it's like he put myself in my shoes which again, is one of the most important principle with customer service. Is put yourself in the customer shoes and validate their emotion. You can validate their emotion without ever validating who is right or wrong. That's not the point. And good customer service people can distinguish between the two. And when you acknowledge someone's emotion, they calm down greatly because they know that you are hearing them and then they can struggle with you to solve the problem because you need their participation. You need them to be an active participant in the problem-solving in order for it to go well.

Salena: Okay, can we do a couple of role plays?

Nate: Yes

Salena: Okay, let's pretend you have a store and I've bought these T-shirts and it's too small. And your customer policy is, that you don't refund because there is nothing wrong with it but you are happy to exchange. And so I walk in, I've bought this shirt for my daughter for Christmas and it doesn't fit. I want a refund.

Nate: Man I can't imagine how frustrating it would be to prepare a gift for somebody and give it to them and then it's not what you wanted. I am so sorry. I would be willing to share with or I would love to give you the options that are available to you. One thing that I do have to make you know is our policy does not allow for refund but it does allow for exchanges. And I am willing to do whatever else I can within that boundary to make it right. How does that sound?

Salena: I want my money back.

Nate: I can tell how upset and angry you are and I would be too because I'd want to make things right. Is there anything else I should know about the situation that could help us resolve.

Salena: No, I just bought this shirt and she tried it on and it doesn't fit.

Nate: Here is now as a customer service person I'm getting uncomfortable becaus I feel trapped right. Because I'm in a situation where I'm not in charge of the policy and I can't make it right in the way you want to. Very typical and I'm trapped.

Salena: This is the way, oftentimes they'll try and hand it off to a supervisor, right. Because the person at the other end that the customer is not going to take no for an answer.

Nate: Absolutely, so at this point if I might say this is where I have to be really self-aware. So I might say something like, I am feeling anxious because I know I can't give you what you want. I'm not authorized to do that. Would you like me to connect you with somebody that you could talk to that might have more ability to work with you on that. Because I'm committed to this thing with you until we get this resolved.

Salena: And at that point the person is probably going to say yes because they are really at the point when they are saying, get me your manager!

Nate: Yeah, usually and what's so interesting though is when people feel heard they usually back off because in this situation the person like that shirt. And they wanted that shirt for their daughter. So it's hard for me to believe that they really don't want the shirt. They want to feel better and they feel hurt, they feel harmed and they want it to be made right. Now very rarely do I see customer service people truly empathize with somebody. And when that happens it's amazing how often the customer will really calmed down and then tell you the truth and then said something like, yeah, it really sucked. And in reality after I give her the shirt, it didn't fit her but it also wasn't a colour that she liked and so I really don't want this style anymore. And now once they start telling you that stuff, now the customer service gets resourceful and say, oh okay, well how about we do this? I can exchange it but I know some shirts are exactly what you are looking for. Can I show you some other styles and models that might be just what your daughter would have liked. And I think you probably could have gone there now that we've had this conversation. You probably could have gone there before you tried to connect them with somebody higher up. If you did ask those questions, was it just the size that didn't fit. And then I always say I like to ask three questions because anything more that three upsets people. Did she like this colour? Did she like the style? Did she like the sleeves on this? And if the answer is not yes, yes and no, you can say, oh but, how about I show you some shirts that sound like they might be a good fit? And let's see if we can sort this problem out. And that like you said, that's good customer service because that's when the resourcefulness comes in. And then your resistance, that's the point when you say, I'll stay with you until we can sort this out.

Nate: Absolutely, or maybe something like the size is been too small. Was there anything else wrong with it or anything else you would change. When people feel heard, it's amazing they will start telling you the truth. But when somebody comes in and says the shirt didn't fit, I want my money back. They have already decided that there is a behaviour you need to do to make them feel better. And they've decided what the solution to their feeling is going to be. And when we can interrupt the cycle and say we hear you, your feeling matters and we want you to feel better too. And maybe we can start working together to start finding a solution to get you to feel better. And then those questions like you've mentioned are such fabulous questions that are resourceful to get through to that solution. I had a situation funny, we sell online products and then usually about a week after the person buys it we send them a satisfaction survey. And we received a very rare dissatisfied customer on a product. And we were worried because most people loved this product. And we always call people when that happened. So I call this lady and I said just following up. I saw that you didn't like it. She said yeah, things didn't go well. And I said I'm so sorry. It took two weeks to get here. And I said man when you order something that you are really excited about, you want it as soon as possible. And I'd be happy to look into what happened if you are interested. And she said no, I was just really excited to get it and actually I'm glad you call because I was wondering if you could come do training for us.

Salena: Laughing okay.

Nate: And I'm going to Canada next week to train their whole leadership team.

Salena: All based on a negative review, a negative feedback.

Nate: All based on a negative feedback and all she wanted was for someone to say, man I know how excited you were and it stinks when you have to wait a long time for something that's really awesome.

Salena: That was something that we always need in our stores as well is when people leave a review, we made sure that they had to leave a first name. And you could usually go back through your order and find the person who bought the thing. The pink unicorn shirt. That was our job. We would have to call that person and say hey, we say that you posted a negative review. We are happy to leave it there but we don't want you to be unhappy. So can you tell us a little bit about what the problem was. And you know what that thing about postage especially in Australia is probably the number one complaint because it is something you don't have control over. You can't make the postal service delivery in the time frame that they said they were going to deliver it. And that could be the situation that ruins it. Just exactly like yours, negative feedback. And sometimes you speak to them on the phone and saying exactly what you just said, I know how excited I get when I order something. And it's so frustrating when it takes forever to get there. You know we don't have control over what you post but we will certainly make sure that we put a complaint, submit a ticket to make sure that Australia postage aware that this happens. We know, especially my local post guy. He is not very good at delivering stuff and so you have to put those tickets in. I think when you explain that you are prepared to do something about it as much as you can do to your abilities. Like you said they just kind of go, yeah, well the actual thing is great. I just didn't like that it took two weeks to get here.

Nate: Yeah I love what you identified. I think there are a lot of situations with customer service where there is something out of both parties control that is maybe the problem. So instead of saying hey, that's not my problem. I am not in charge of post. So don't look at us. Don't complain to me about it. What instead if we partnered to co-struggle to work around this problem. So what if as a vendor I said man, I know. And sometimes it's really hard and I know the post we can't control how fast things come. I will be willing to share with you some strategies we have for working around that if you are interested. And then all of a sudden we are struggling together now to solve a common problem.

Salena: And even if they don't want to go to the effort of whatever solutions you have. In their mind, you've kind of fixed the problem even if the problem is not fixed. You've given them some options and they have chosen not to take any action.

Nate: Absolutely, and that's where I think we have gone so overboard in these ridiculous beliefs like the customer is always right or do anything to please the customer. I think that's a big problem. I think we are putting ourselves in the position to be victim vendors for persecutor customers. And as if we just have to do everything to make them happy. And they don't have any responsibility for the success of the product or the success of the service. And I don't think that's a long-term healthy solution nor does it builds loyal customers. I think when we take those mistakes and those conflicts and we work with them and they are engaged and we are engaged in finding an awesome solution. It actually makes them more loyal because they are not advocates with us. Instead of just waiting for us to mess up or expecting us to fix everything or waiting for some vendor with a shinier horse and a wider knight to come in and make bigger promises.

Salena: And to be honest it's something I hear every single day those customers who say well I'm just going to defame you all over social media and Google and all those kinds of things because they can in this day and age. And it's very hard for you to be on Google, on Facebook trying to reply back to these persons when sometimes you could; my answer is just pick up the phone. Because everyone hides behind keyboards. But having a conversation with somebody doesn't happen an awful lot. And like you said if you go into it with this knowledge that you've shared with us, it's really likely that you can diffuse the situation.

Nate: It is and ultimately we cannot control anybody else we can only manage ourselves. We can only invite people into a healthy place and encourage them to work with us. But at some point we do have to let go of that and not personalize it. And I wonder how many of these problems actually were brewing long before. And there was just a series of little things where people didn't feel heard and then something clicks and they decide to take it out on us.

Salena: Like I said earlier I reckon 99% of people who demand refunds or absolutely complain in customer service, it is not about your product. And they are used to say things like that. I think I maybe have a little bit of your wisdom at some point. But maybe it's just 25 years of experience. I use to say things like it sounds like your day is not going the way you wanted it to be when you first wake up. Just things like that and they go yeah. Someone ran into my car and then I was late for work and then I was blah-blah. And all of a sudden you can see that they just wanted someone to listen to them. It's not about the shirt.

Nate: Yeah, no it's not. And we call that the difference between process and content. When people are distressed they often focus on the content when it's not about that at all. It's about the process of how they are feeling, about how the relationships are going, about whatever. And it just happens that the shirt that was too small or the computer that arrived too slow or the package that arrived late becomes the target.

Salena: Yes, it's just the thing. The straw that breaks the camel's back.

Nate: Yeah, absolutely.

Salena: Okay, do you talk about this in your book?

Nate: I don't talk specifically about customer service but I have hundreds of relationships of when things don't go well and they are all very applicable. And there is an even balance between personal and professional applications.

Salena: And what's the name of the book?

Nate: The book is called Conflict without Casualties: A field guide for leading compassionate accountability.

Salena: Okay, we'll definitely pop a link to that because I think especially in customer service, if you've got examples in your book even if they aren't customer service relevant, and people can see how things could have been different or the outcomes could have been changed. I think that must have reading for every retailer. Probably every business owner actually but dealing with conflict and trying to diffuse the situation and just understanding those three parts that you are talking about, the openness, the resourcefulness and the resistance. And knowing those three different roles that people play, the persecutor, the victim and the rescuer. I think that, that will bring people around and make them make a better decision when they are in those drama moments

Nate: It will, and the book has so many examples of our own experience in a role as a service provider and the experiences we've had with customers and how we've negotiated that conflict. So I guess you could say yes there are lots of customer service examples in there.

Salena: That's fabulous. I think we are going to and how they can do eave it there so that people can process. I don't want to overwhelm everybody. They are processing the example with the refund and how they could do things differently and even manage their teams differently when those sort of situations arise. So if people would like to read, I know you've got quite a lot of information on your website. If people would like to read more or even grab the book, where can we find you?

Nate: We are at and everything is available there. You can look me up on LinkedIn or follow me on twitter@nextnate or look up nextelement on Facebook. But if you look up nextelement consulting it will come up right there on Google.

Salena: Fantastic we'll make sure we put the links to those in the show notes. Thank you so much for sharing your story and for giving us some great information. Your story is definitely something that needs to be shared because that journey from Africa and the situation with your daughter to what you do now. That situation in Africa is the whole catalyst for how you manage to help people in your life right now.

Nate: it really is thank you. It has been a pleasure being on air and I can tell you, you are doing great work. And more and more customer service people in this industry need to hear this.

Salena: Thank you. You have a fantastic day. 


Nate Regier, Ph.D., is CEO and co-founding owner of Next Element, a global leadership advisory firm specializing in communication and conflict skills. He’s an expert in social-emotional intelligence and leadership, positive conflict, neuropsychology, group dynamics, interpersonal and leadership communication, executive assessment and coaching. Regier is a co-developer of Next Element’s Leading Out of Drama® training and coaching system, an LOD® master trainer and Process Communication Model® certifying master trainer. He is co-author of Beyond Drama: Transcending Energy Vampires. He’s an enthusiastic dad and husband.

“Each week I interview industry and thought leaders for their take on business and life”