How To Read Minds – Jonathon Pritchard

Jonathon rec



“Think like a mind reader"



How that might happen (Mind Reading) or how that might occur? [13:55]

What is mind-reading one on one? [22:40]

Was it physical cues that Jonathon use in his mentalism tricks [33:36]

If someone trusts you, there's a pretty good chance that they're going to like you?! [38:21]

Jonathon square


SALENA: Hey there and welcome to this week's episode of the bringing business to retail podcast. I am always fascinated by the science behind how we humans behave; it is one of those one of those hobbies that I'd love to take a little bit further. So when Monica told me that we have a Mentalist appearing on the show today I wasn't quite sure what to think from my vast experience of watching The Mentalist on TV ten to twelve years ago.

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I appreciate the concept behind mind-reading is much more about watching for behavioral cues and clues, but like a magic trick, I still don't know how the heck they do it. So today Jonathon, Prichard, magician, Mentalist and entertainer, turned speaker, coach and author might just show us how we can read minds too. So welcome to the show Jonathon.

JONATHON: Hey, I'm super glad to be here that's a fantastic introduction, I hope to live up to it.

SALENA: you know the first question I'm going to ask you is how the heck do you become a mind reader?

JONATHON : Absolutely that's always the first question out the gate and my short answer is I grew up weird, but honestly how it is, but basically when I was thirteen I learned how to juggle fire, when I was fifteen I was hammering nails up my nose, when I was eighteen I was eating fire and in college I met a guy by the name of James Randi who had a million-dollar challenge to anybody who claims to be psychic or have any supernatural powers for real and I started working with him designing testing protocol for people who applied to the challenge and I saw all the ways that people were trying to scam their way to the million dollars in thoughts. I can do these scams better than they can and that's how I became a Mentalist and mind reader.

SALENA: Okay, I just have to stop right there, how do you that putting nails up your nose.

JONATHON : Very carefully.

SALENA: Where do you learn this?

JONATHON : Well I grew up around kind of retired circus folk, my first mentor Randal we used to be a street performer down in South Florida and retired to the mountains in North Carolina where I grew up and he ran a summer program that my mom enrolled me in little did any of us know how much that would affect the rest of my life. So I started the school program or the afternoon program knowing how to juggle and then he goes well you already know how to juggle do you want to learn how to juggle pins absolutely, this looks like fun and once you can do that it's not that much different to set them on fire. So my parents were thinking well he's learning from a professional, he's young, he'll heal quickly, if he gets hurt so. Why not, so give a lot of props to my parents for you know letting their wild child do a whole bunch of crazy stuff like that.

SALENA: So, I have to ask you though is the concept behind _ this is a magic trick question, I'll be honest is the putting nails up your nose sleight of hand trick or do you actually stick the nails up your nose.

JONATHON : You actually stick the nail up your nose, there's a tradition called geek and it was kind of the sideshow stuff that was real and they were really doing it there's no artifice to it and it's just gumption and having the wherewithal and the knowledge to do it properly. So eating fire you're really doing it, hammering a nail up your nose you're really doing it. So you're not hammering it up your nose.

So much as into your nose, so if you've ever been intubated or the EMTs put the oxygen tubes down your sinuses and to the back of your throat that's the pathway that the nail takes. If you hammer it straight up your nose towards the base to the front of your skull in your brain you could break through the very thin part of your skull there and kill yourself. So if you don't know what you're doing you can have a really bad day.

SALENA: You can't see my face right now, but you can imagine whatever it look like.

JONATHON: I've seen that face in every audience since I was fifteen years old, I know exactly what that face is.

SALENA: Okay, so to reading, so you've had the professional training, well no so you've had the professional observation that's cool, what was the…

JONATHON: Every show is a science experiment, it's a laboratory where I get to test out ideas in real time and get feedback, so that that's why magicians and mentalists kind of have a thousand-year head start on scientists trying to understand the psychology stuff in a laboratory setting, well we do it every day in the real world onstage in a variety of contexts. So we've got an experiential background that is lightyears ahead of where the science is.

SALENA: And you know I am on the science-based person, I'm the logical person and I have been to some of those magic shows like the really big glitzy ones and I appreciate that it's sleight of hand and so sometimes I'll spend the whole time trying to work out what's going on and then when it happens and I haven't seen it mind blowing.

JONATHON: Exactly that's you just drilled straight into the heart of the matter that is totally this misunderstanding that you know children like magic and it's for the kids, but if you've ever been to a kid's party where there was a magician the parents are blown away a lot more than the kids are and why that is, so here's the secret to every magic trick you've ever seen will ever see here it is, the magician or Mentalist creates a context for the audience to make logical assumptions that are later shown to not be true right.

SALENA: Sorry is it little bit like realistic programming you are kind of tell them you're going to end up.

JONATHON: Well you show them, you build a context that allows them to assume where it's going, where that would be the most logical assumption to make. But it's not the real things happening right, so our brains are constantly trying to predict the world and kind of forecast what's going to happen, so that you're not surprised because in the real world a surprise is usually deadly right, it's a car accident, it's falling down the stairs, it's a whole bunch of stuff right.

So when you don't have an accurate predictive model of what's real you're the person that's going to hurt not reality, but in the context of a magic show it's a fun wonderful experience because our expectations aren't fulfilled right that's the kind of fun part of it, but if you don't have enough life experience to understand logically what is supposed to happen then you don't have any assumptions to violate and surprise that's why kids aren't as entertained by magic as adults are because kids live in a world of magic where my brother can eat an elephant.

So what right it's the parents who know that things don't just float for no reason, they know beyond a shot of effect that that is not possible, but there it is they're seeing it and seeing is believing. So it's those two experiences that they can't reconcile and that's the magical effect.

SALENA:  And I still to this day during how to make things flow, that’s a hope you know isn’t it.

JONATHON: Exactly, right because if somebody says you know what you can't fool me I'm on to you what they're really telling me is I lack the intelligence to make accurate predictive models of reality and therefore it cannot be surprised, but you've got to have a certain level in a level of sophistication for magic to even work in the first place. But you can't really do magic for a horse only for people that have logical capacity.

SALENA: And they understand I guess cause and effect or consequences we have to get that and that's the other thing about kids, they don't understand consequences. So they don't know what is supposed to happen but we do.

JONATHON: Exactly, so over our lives we build these beliefs and mental models about how the world operates and since it is useful for almost everything always every day we think they're pretty good, but we never notice the times that it doesn't work out right all right. So that's where optical illusions kind of give you a peek into that world or if you think somebody is your friend and they're not you know hey Carl that's not Carl sorry right, it's not that life-ending right, so you don't really notice all the times that it goes wrong because you don't notice it going wrong which is a really weird idea.

SALENA: It really make sense.

JONATHON: It makes total sense, so in the context of magicians, they they've seen it over and over and over and over again how people behave exactly the same way regardless of the society that they grew up in people respond to magic the same way right, it doesn't matter because it's based off fundamental operating principles that govern how human beings interact with reality and it's that kind of behavioral model that plays out in business, in web design, in email marketing any time you're trying to get a behavior out of your audience or your market or whatever you've got to think about the context that you're building right. So if you're not getting the right behavior you're not giving them the right context to reward that behavior in the first place.

SALENA: Can you give example, how that might happen or how that might occur

JONATHON: I'll give you the kind of science example and then a kind of real-world example. So there's a behavioral psychologist BF Skinner whose work just makes me laugh all the time when I read up on it made superstitious pageants and to me that's hilarious not just pigeons that do stuff that looks weird these pigeons genuinely are superstitious. So he had a whole bunch of cages and there's a lever and the birds would figure out if I hit the lever then food will drop out. So the birds figured out really quickly, if I hit the lever then food drops out okay I get it, well unbeknownst to the birds once they were classically conditioned that way he would then set food up to drop out at random time intervals. The bird wouldn't have to hit the lever, so whatever the bird was doing looking over its left shoulder and then food drops out it goes now I have to do that to get food out and what's really weird is intermittent rewards are more motivating than rewards given every single time for the behavior and we can look to gambling right to prove that right.

If I gave you a dollar and you gave me ninety-four cents every time well that wouldn't be as exciting. But if I gave you a dollar and sometimes you took it or sometimes it gave me twenty dollars that's exciting right. So those intermittent reward behaviors more effectively than consistent rewards. So the food would drop out and it goes all right now I got to look over my left shoulder, looks over its left shoulder, looks over his left shoulder, looks over his left shoulder and now because the timer goes off food would drop out. But it just reinforces that behavior in the pigeon.

So now, the pigeon believes wholeheartedly that it looking over its shoulder is what makes the food drop out. But those two are not connected in any way that's superstitious behavior right. So you have to understand the context that your shopper is in and then build an environment that rewards that behavior. So for example, real world your website, if you have a visitor and you want one behavior out of them only offer that one option.

I see so many websites let's say; sign up for this, sign up for that, sign up for our email list get our newsletter right there are so many options there's no clear distinctive behavior that the retailer is trying to get out of there visitor. So when the visitor has too many options they just choose none of them.

SALENA: That is how many time have been to a restaurant and there's five pages take ten pages in the menu and you're like I just can't think of this video. There's too much here for making me to make a decision.

JONATHON: Exactly, so you get choice paralysis right too many options you choose none of them, but if you constrained the number of options say; the three or five at the most your click-through or whatever behavior you want will increase exponentially. So think about the one thing you want your visitor to do and only offer that option now the superstitious pigeon part of this is don't try to reinvent the wheel with a totally unknown context right because if your visitor shows up your website and it's some experimental design that you think is great, but only makes sense to you, your visitor won't understand the box, they won't know what you want from them and they're like man this is just way too confusing, I'm out.

But if you make it very clear based on previous experience and traditions and kind of knowing what works don't try to reinvent the wheel use what works constrain the options and your interaction rates will just go up like crazy.

SALENA: So can we just use an example there, if people are thinking tell me if I'm on the right track, say; you sell handbags on the front page of your website don't have a lovely lifestyle shot of somebody sitting at the beach because they don't necessarily have a handbag in the picture, is that what you are saying?

JONATHON: Right well that is kind of future pacing right, so people kind of make their choices by emotion and then justify them with logic, so that that lifestyle image is evoking that emotion of some mystical future of happiness that I'm not in currently because I work in a cubicle and I've not seen the beach in twelve years right, so that hero image kind of has a useful purpose in framing the value of the handbag, as this is the kind of person who buys our bags, this is the kind of person you want to be there for, you subconsciously make the association that I want to be that kind of a person so I'm going to do that by buying this handbag.

SALENA: Okay, so that wasn’t a good example, but I was thinking of another example of an ethical clearly I was wrong on that one, an ethical clothing company that I went to just a small brand and when we went to their website, it had a picture of like a purple alligator like a comical which was obviously their logo.


SALENA: But it meant nothing to me like I was sitting here going am I in the right spot, these kids toys or some kind of weed [inaudible 17:01] that I should know about.

JONATHON: Exactly.

SALENA: And that’s the point right only stayed because it was the website that a potential client had given me well I must be in the right spot click through the website.

JONATHON: Right, see the communication isn't just what you say; it's what the person you're talking to here's and if you're speaking in a visual language, in a verbal language written language that your visitor doesn't speak. How can they understand you, so when companies start using imagery that isn't in alignment with their mission because some sales gurus sold them on well you need a mascot, but the mascot is so far out there that there's no easy way to connect the company to the mascot, you kind of go I don't know if I'm at the right spot and that confusion is not what you want right, so that's an example of where that wasn't executed properly and the way I understand that from the mentalism world, is a lot of people misconstrue amazement with confusion.

JONATHON: I was so confused I didn't even know what was going on, well that confusion means there's no magical effect, if you're confused about what happened you can't be clear about the effect right. So really good experiences, really good magic tricks, really good mind-reading tricks, have to be so simple and direct. I don't know this, I told it to you [inaudible 18:42] there you go, but if it gets confusing, okay I need you to write this down and then go bury it for three weeks and then dig it up on a full moon and that right just like what is this right. So the simpler the more direct your language your imagery, the better your everything is.

SALENA: Okay, so let talk about in person can you give us mind-reading one on one, if we're in person. So I'm about to go to an event and you know sometimes when you are chatting to somebody at an event and you can see their eyes darting around the room because clearly you are important

JONATHON: Absolutely.

SALENA: And you feel like saying can you just go that what I will do but any way, when you're in that kind of situation what is a mind-reading one on one tip that you can give us to can practice.

JONATHON: in person is a totally different dynamic and it's one of my favorites because people always say scale implement systems, but man there's nothing that beats face-to-face communication in contact. I would agree with you, if somebody is looking over my shoulder for the bigger better deal, I would just call them out on it I know that's not the most PC thing to do. But I would I just be like I'm clearly boring you have a good time sorry to waste your time without letting them kind of get away with that ladder climbing behavior right. It's like you don't understand how valuable I am and you're clearly just using people so you're not going to be a good client for me either, so I'm preemptively firing you.

So here's how I do this when I meet people and at least here in America one of the most common questions, is so what do you do for a living? it's so weird because that's the most boring question on the planet, one because I know I've got the more interesting job, I'm a mind reader oh my god tell me more about that alright, this is the same conversation I've had five thousand times before.

So I don't want to have the same conversation, but also what they're really doing, they're not asking you what you do for a living? what they're really asking you is how can I pigeonhole you as quickly as possible to know whether or not I can use you and if you are a multi entrepreneur or you're a kind of a freelancer with multiple skill sets, well now you're faced with the chance of well I've got a one in five shot of saying the right thing to this person, who I know can hire me.

But if I say I'm a graphic designer and they need email marketing well then I just shot myself in the foot right because they're going to pigeonhole you by the one answer you give here's what I do for a living. so here's what you do instead of answering the question directly here's what I do to make a living, I say here's what I believe, I believe that the better you can understand why people do what they do, the better you can serve them and the more effectively you can help people the better the whole world is.

So everything I do is a function of trying to understand the fundamental kind of motivational psychology that drives everybody, what do you think? Now it sounds weird to give a weird kind of answer like that, but what you do is you're stating your fundamental life philosophy that motivates all of your relationships personal and business. So if the person doesn't agree with your fundamental philosophy, then you know that they're not going to be a good client for you. So you've just disqualified them without them knowing it, but also when they start a conversation with you to go in deeper now, everything that you do has that same throughput right.

This email marketing is an example of my passion for understanding psychology my graphic design is leveraging fundamental motivational psychology. Now, all those separate things you do make sense because they're just different expressions of your core philosophy, so that's how you are kind of circumnavigate that whole what do you do for living? I got to pick one of my five nope goes straight for your fundamental philosophy share that and now you've saved yourself six months of hassle trying to figure out the Terri bad client.

SALENA: I just I actually did a video on I think it's five conversation starters and we talked I talked about that a key person in the room who's just using you and my call out for them is who do you think the luckiest person in this room is because then you kind of have caught them out on the fact that they're looking around and they have to kind of look at you and go you know this let me just get it again.

JONATHON: I love that.

SALENA: I have to come back with an answer or I'll just walk off.

JONATHON: Right exactly.

SALENA: So I think that's just a nice way to transition you can either have a conversation with me or you can go find somebody better.

JONATHON: Right, exactly and I have the superpower of incredible focus, I can just dial into one person the world could be ending and I don't care you are the only thing that exists in my world right, now and people really respond to that because they are so rarely seen because so many people are flitting from here to there or interested in only in so far as you can help them whatever it is. So people aren't used to full attention being brought to a conversation, so the more of that that you can bring to your face-to-face conversations man you're gonna get a lot of goodwill from people who really appreciate you not looking over their shoulder trying to look for the bigger deal.


SALENA: Do you know the difference, you say that and it just brings you back to a conversation that I had with somebody, in fact I don't even know their name. But when I went to a conference in Los Angeles and we were both just gazing out we weren't from Los Angeles so we're gazing out across the city lights and he was chatting about the city in the conference, we just were talking about general stuff and then he started telling me about his wife and how he had this fantastic job and it paid a lot of money.

But we really just wanted to be a farmer and we got into this great big discussion about whether his wife had bought into the marriage with his current job or with him being a farmer and how that would affect their life going forward, it was the most amazing conversation as I said I don't even know this person's name. But I can remember everything about the conversation and the difference between that and your regular networking conversation, is it becomes memorable all of a sudden you have like a physical point a mental point that people can attach you to because you've had a conversation and above the surface kind of generic interaction with somebody.

JONATHON: It's the conversational equivalent to a magic trick because at these networking events you all are operating off the same script, hi my name is Jonathon, I do this what's your name what do you do? my name right and that is so played out and it's safe right you're not going to stick your foot in your mouth. Why by playing from the same script, but like said it's not memorable you've had that conversation of five thousand times too.

So if you are kind of hijacked that script and in the mentalism world that's called a pattern interrupt. So if somebody is in a familiar pattern of behavior or thought if you can just totally interrupt it now, they're fully in the present moment because their operating system doesn't know what to do and if you can manage that dynamic expertly it's a wonderful experience.

So you guys just shortcut the whole chitchat and then got into real conversation and the really good way of doing that is to do it yourself first. So in the context of a show I always say my name first hey my name is Jonathon what's your name. So I offer what it is that I want to get from my spectator or volunteer. So if you demand from them first good luck with that, but if you give it first then they'll be happy to give it to you too right. So if I said hey what's your name well you're the mind reader you tell me right or if I go hey my name is Jonathon what's your name? it's Karl right.

So if you want to cut through all the chitchat and really make a good human connection be human, be genuine, be truthful, about what it is that you're looking for in a way to facilitate real genuine connection with that other person, don't just dump all of your problems on them right. They're not your therapist, but be open warm and in kind and people respond just the same.

SALENA: Going back this conversation and you said you were helping out Randall with the criteria for getting the million dollars.

JONATHON: James Randi.

SALENA: James Randi, you have to tell us did somebody win the million dollars?

JONATHON: Nobody ever even got past preliminary testing.

SALENA: Okay, so when you were watching these people and it was obviously clear that they were trying to scam some body. So what was the thing you kept picking up? what was the thing where you were watching your going [inaudible 28:57].


SALENA: What was the queue that I expect that there was probably some sort of repetitive queue that you picked up on.

JONATHON: A lot of times they were just kind of doing mentalism tricks and magic tricks poorly disguised, but on kind of a meta-analysis level the challenge existed two whole professional charlatan’s feet to the fire right people who were knowingly betraying people's trust and defrauding them and taking their money for spirit healing or whatever form that took right. They know they're lying to people and they know they can't trick Randi. So they never even apply in the first place so that's really why the challenge existed, but to be a real challenge it needs to be open.

So the only people who applied were people who really believed they had the mojo and most of those folks that's the defining characteristic that made them feel special and unique was I have this gift, but really all it is was self-delusion or being really good at reading physical cues, it wasn't that they had a straight connection to the spirit realm right. We never saw evidence for that. So in double-blind testing they would only do so well as statistics would tell them they should

SALENA: And so was it physical cues that you use in your mentalism tricks

JONATHON: Yes there's a lot that goes into it, it was kind of fun because I toured for a year and a half with a full-time entertainer to kind of learn the business of doing shows and I would open for his show, he would do a bizarre magic show and then I would do mind-reading stuff, well I would open for his show and I used about five volunteers and he would be backstage, he wouldn't be watching, but he would be listening and go well you're pacing was good here, it kind of lagged here. So it was it was a lot of good feedback but then something weird started happening very quickly because this was at the beginning of my touring career. He started using the same five people for his shows and it was really strange. I would bring five people up four for my opening segment my opening bit and then he would use a significant number of those five volunteers for his show.

He didn't see who it was that I brought up we were just both looking for the same kind of people and then you hone that feel over performance after performance after performance you start to recognize what physiological behaviors are common to this type of personality or disposition. So if you're going to do a rope escape you want the guy whose kind of angry and combative and you're not gonna get me, so that way the audience knows he's not in on it like he yeah he's really tying the guy up, he's not gonna let him loose on this. But if you get a meek person up there who's kind of bashful well then you go well of course there's gonna be a lot of slack in that rope right. So you need the right personality for the right situation and you start to recognize that when you start looking for it.

So we human beings are really good at reading those nonverbal cues because we're social creatures, but it's when you start to get conscious about how well your intuition is playing out that you start to train your intuition. So you you've got to really be aware of the assumptions you're making the actions you do because of those assumptions and then paying attention to how well it plays out. So if it doesn't go well being aware of the assumptions that caused that rewiring that and then making better assumptions based on that feedback. So it's all about assumptions, actions feedback.

SALENA: It's funny that you say that because I know that in my many years of having stores sometimes when people walked in the door you could just tell that they were going to buy stuff, but you didn't even know what they were there for, but I don't know there was just the intuition that this person is going to you know stick a whole bunch of stuff on the counter and hand over their credit card.

JONATHON: Exactly because their behaviors are a natural expression of their fundamental mindset and beliefs right. So if they're coming with the mindset to buy, they're going to behave like somebody who buys right. it's really subtle and you can really quickly spoil the sale when you start behaving like there's somebody that's going to buy and then they get the feeling that you're trying to kind of game the system or show them the high ticket items just because and then you kind of self-sabotage because you go this is gonna be somebody that's gonna buy right and then you fouled the deal because of those behaviors based on your belief about how they're behaving.

So it's weird how much of a mental game retail is in human relationships are. So even if somebody walks in ready to do something you can still undermine your success by trying to behave too strongly to facilitate that outcome.

SALENA: And from that point does it just come back to just being human just trying to make that connection that you said you're probably twenty minutes ago you were saying just make that connection just be yourself.

JONATHON: Exactly care about people wait oh my god what a revolutionary idea right. So I got to get my bottom line, I got to get my sales, I got to get the treat your customers like people and then they'll want to do business with you right because that old argument well is it better to be liked or trusted, well that's a false dichotomy you can be liked and trusted.

SALENA: Exactly because if someone trusts you, there's a pretty good chance that they're going to like you.

JONATHON: Exactly right, there there's one example of somebody that I do not like and I can always trust them to be untrustworthy. So I don't do business with that guy, I could trust them and I don't like him, but usually those two can go together so the fastest way to undermine their trust and therefore your likability is to treat them solely as a cash cow right because if you're doing good business both people are better at the end of it, at the end of a transaction both you and your customer are better off that's the miracle of capitalism and free exchange of value.

They value the product you're offering more than their dollars and you value their dollars more than your product and boom more value on both sides of the equation that's pure magic to me and why I love entrepreneurs and retailers, it's just magnificent to me and there's nothing else in the world that works like that does.

SALENA: It's the whole ground behind I will like to call it ethical up selling and how I can have such a big difference in your business, if the thing that you want to offer somebody is going to help them you aren't being a slimy salesperson because they're going to give you more money, if you genuinely think that Plus this will make life better, we'll make it work faster. we'll get you more out of it then it's not being you know that sleazy electronics guy [inaudible 36:55] you don’t why.

JONATHON: Exactly, right and that's why some of the most successful people I know are the kindest most ethical people that I know because if you don't believe in your product or you'd know it's a scam your nature is going to fight you trying to sell it to people because you know you're scamming them and you know you're an awful human being because you're doing it. So it's going to be uncomfortable to try to upsell people to this thing you know doesn't work, so that dynamic it's built into your nature to undermine your ability to lie to people like that, so you can't get rich and fabulously wealthy for the most part  in a really free market without the help of some legislators to help you out there, but that's why the kindest most ethical people who believe in their product are the most successful.

SALENA: Because they're sailing to genuinely help.

JONATHON: Exactly and they are genuinely helping people not just saying they are or thinking they are really genuinely they are. So that's why I always say that entrepreneurs we have an ethical obligation to share our value with the world and to get value for value because if you don't offer your value you aren't helping the people you can help and if you don't charge them appropriately, they're stealing from you. So you can't let them steal from you and also they have to value your services that's a wisdom of the gipsies I call it because tarot card readers and crystal seers all that kind of stuff, they could give you the world's best most insightful reading, but if they did it for free it's worth exactly what you paid for.

SALENA: No values.

JONATHON : It nothing and they go I don't think that applies to me, but if you pay a reader twenty thousand dollars man you're gonna be twenty thousand dollars’ worth invested in what they have to say and it is now twenty thousand dollars’ worth valuable to you. So if you really have value to offer to the world don't sell it for cheap because the clients won't value it either. So in order to really help your clients they've got to bring the value to the table too and they will be much more likely to engage with your product or your services or whatever it is that you do to make their life better

SALENA: I see that as a courage all the time, I put out free stuff every single week and someone will say; I've watched all of your videos and I download all of your cheat sheets, but I'm just not able to implement it. But the minute that their skin in the game and they've got someone to be accountable to then like you said there's money on the table is I need to make this work. I can't afford to just be spending money and getting no results.

JONATHON: Exactly, that's why when people go hey pick your brain what they're really saying is can I steal from you and then the further translation is hey can I waste an hour of your time and then totally ignore all the value you've given me during that hour. So it's like three layers of waste when you let people just pick your brain. Now, I'm not just saying dollars are the only value you get in the world maybe you're mentoring somebody and you get emotional value out of it that way, I'm not saying dollars are the only way to enumerate value. But when people go hey let me pick your brain it's exactly like people coming up to me after my mind-reading show and they're going how did you do that it's like well I spent my life learning how to do this.

JONATHON: It would be no different than somebody walking up to a millionaire and going hey how did you make a million dollars, teach me teach me your system, it's like no I spent a lifetime learning how to do this and my time isn't best spent working with somebody who doesn't understand the value of what I know you think you want it, but you're not demonstrating it by your behavior, your attitude, your humble your willingness to learn, your willingness to implement. What it is I tell you right, so there's an old kung-Fu saying that it's difficult to find a teacher, but it's more difficult to find a student.

SALENA: It is true.

JONATHON: It's really hard to find people who genuinely want to improve their life or make things better and are willing to invest in their success and on the flip side you've got a lot of coaches who don't invest in their own education who would never pay ninety-nine dollars for a course oh my gosh, it's so much money, well you're only going to attract students who want the twenty dollar course and so the amount that you're willing to invest in yourself, is the upper ceiling of how much your students are willing to invest in what you have to share.

SALENA: Speaking of investing and speaking of sharing all of your secrets, you have a book don't you where people can learn some of your secrets.

JONATHON: I do, I was having the same kind of twenty conversations with people on planes and after shows about you know they would go man you're living the life you're Turing the world, you don't have a boss you're getting paid good money, I can't even imagine doing that and it was eventually it clicked they literally couldn't imagine doing anything other than the ninety-five grind. so I started talking to people about how I think about things and they started emailing me back going oh my gosh thank you so much for your time, here's what I did and here's how much better my life is because of it and I realized it actually has a lot of good value. So I put it into a book, so that way people can have those conversations with me without me having to actually physically be there.

SALENA: The book is called?

JONATHON: Think like a mind reader.

SALENA: And I was last night, I was having a look at it because I said I am really fascinated with the whole behavioral psychology and I saw that you can download the first chapter for free and get in bed at the time on my phone I was like no we don't do this in bed, but I have a bookmark to download today because I'm fascinating. I'm sure I'll end up buying the actual book, but you don't help standing we always like to read the first chapter first that's a very good hook to get people in because you're showing value straight away.

JONATHON: Exactly thank you, I am a genius thank you. So the best way to do that is to just go to think like a mind reader calm scroll down a little bit and it'll have the hey read the first chapter here and lots of links to Amazon where you could buy the physical book if you wanted here's a note it there isn't  an eBook version of the book because the physical book has a mind-reading trick built into it that you can use to read your friends minds you can...

SALENA: How did that not train like the digital?

JONATHON: Well you'll have to buy the book to see, but you literally can't do that with an e-reader version of the book, but with the physical thing you can and experiencing that process is such a fundamental part of the experience of the book. I just couldn't in good conscience cut that out of the book and then offer it on digital. So if you want to read the whole thing and get the whole value out of the book you got to get the physical thing.

SALENA: So now there is a hook, if you want this thing so badly you really do have to invest.

JONATHON: Exactly, you can't just download it from the internet.

SALENA: Because book.

JONATHON: Sorry to clutter up the desk.

SALENA: That's okay and he's that way people can find you if they want to learn more about your coaching your speaking your mentalism.

JONATHON: I think like a mind reader is where you find the book and the accompanying video course that goes into some of the ideas more deeply with animations and video like a mind is my coaching and speaking side of things. So I teach people how to negotiate like a mind reader sell like a mind reader influence like right blank like a mind-reader. So that's why it's like a

SALENA: Thank you sorry about for these this is bane I think one of my funniest episodes.

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JONATHON: Well thank you very much I really appreciate it and I just I love sharing my thoughts with people and hopefully they find some value in it and can change their mind because know if you change your mind you change your whole life.

SALENA: Definitely a one hundred percent agreed, thank you so much for being on the show.

JONATHON: You are super welcome and thanks for having me


Jonathon Pritchard is an entertainer turned speaker, coach, & author. Colleges, businesses, and entrepreneurs book him to talk about his insights into human behavior, success psychology, motivation, & communication.

For the past decade he’s been on TV & toured the world as a mentalist which has given him unique insight into why people do what they do, and how to leverage that process to create a custom- t life.

His passion for connecting with audiences means people are drawn to his dynamic presenting style, and he always leaves them amazed with demonstrations of mind to mind communication.

When not on the road speaking you can nd him in Chicago practicing kung fu every morning.

“Each week I interview industry and thought leaders for their take on business and life”