[00:00:00] Imagine going from one store to over a hundred stores in five years as an independent retailer, tackling the big brands head on and doing it, even though you're a bricks and mortar chain by fulfilling over 80% of your orders through e-commerce. And the cherry on the cake having a sell-through rate of less than two days.

Welcome to the Bringing Business to Retail podcast, where we talk all about strategies to make more money in your retail and e-commerce business. And today's guest, Steven Prius, is the CEO and co-founder of the store that has done a. All of those crazy things, and he's going to share his journey with you and give you some insights as to what happens when you grow so fast.

Hey, Steven. Welcome. Hello, Selena. Happy to be here. Looking forward to our conversation today. So many people have this concept of a store that like taking their one store and turning it into an empire, but actually most people, [00:01:00] when you press them on it can't even fathom having. Five stores, 10 stores, 20 stores, let alone, I think you're up to 105 stores and still growing.

Did you always want the Empire? We always knew that we wanted something larger and something to really disrupt retail and secondhand, but it's, even though we're at 105 stores now and we've grown from 2020 to 2025, we went from literally one to a hundred plus. It was a 21 year journey to get here. So my partner and I, Eric started with one store in 2004.

So it's been a two decade journey. Wow. We had a, a secondhand store and I wasn't paying more at that point in time. We weren't focusing on electronics. We were just taking anything in we could and selling it for as much as we could, and if we can make a profit in between. That was great. We ran that initial business for about [00:02:00] six or seven years.

We did a lot wrong, but in a lot of those errors that we made, we learned what we wanted to do and what we wanted to create pay more with. Number one was electronics. We were making more money and we were making huge connections in, in the electronics world. So we wanted to really focus on that and there was no one else doing that at that point in time.

And then just as important, we saw a really need to change the way that people experience the secondhand. Most people, when you think of secondhand store, you think of a pawn shop. You think of these stores that are not, you know, bright and airy, that are safe and secure, really a stigmatized space. We wanted to really take the secondhand focus on the customer experience, which was not done at that point in time, and make it an elevated retail experience where people would fold it into their weekly or, or monthly shopping habits without the stigma.

So we took the secondhand experience and we took, [00:03:00] uh, optionality in the electronic space and we, we put that together. We created Pay more, and we started actually our first pay more store in 2011 at that point in time. There was really nothing else out there like us. And we created our own technology as well, and our software and our operating system fully customized for our business.

And we went on our journey and, you know, we, we created our software to be, uh, fully proprietary, fully customized for the, the secondhand electronic space. And in 2017, now running seven years with the pay more brand. Really fine tuning our business model, putting a lot of our investment. In fact, over 90% of our investment over this time was in our technology.

We realized after, you know, several years of running our pay more store, that we had something, we had lines out the door. We had a great repeat customer aid, which is, uh, unheard of in the secondhand industry. We were [00:04:00] doing great with our sales. We looked around and, and we said, listen, we have to expand. We didn't see anyone else out there doing what we were doing.

So we chose the franchising route and we wanted to really get coast to coast, and we thought that franchising would be the best tool to do that. So in 2020, we, after this kind of 15, 16 year journey. Of doing a lot of things wrong and automating it and wrapping technology around it and really focusing on the customer.

We decided to go that route and expand through the franchising and, and that was really our tool to get from what was then two stores now to 105. As you mentioned. I have so many questions around the franchising route and all those sorts of things, but if we can go back, because you've said something that really touches my heart because when I first started my first bricks and mortar store.

It was babying kids and we did for exactly the same reason we went into like half of the store was pre loved maternity [00:05:00] wear. And for me it was looking at as having been pregnant and, and becoming a mom. It was, I want nice things. But I don't want to pay a ridiculous amount of money for something I'm literally only going to wear for a few months.

And I sort of had two options because, you know, I don't like to spend money, Steven, I'm a bit of a tie ass. And so I had two options. I would either go to the outlet malls and get things that kind of sort of fit, or I would pick up a lot of things back in the day, this was in 2007, we did a lot of eBay. We did a lot of.

Picking things up secondhand off of gum. Like we have gumtree here, like your Craigslist, and just trying to find in those parenting forums secondhand stuff. And like you said, there wasn't, and, and I still don't know that it's come a huge way. I know that there is a lot of, uh, reselling boutiques when it comes to clothing and you're in electronics, but I still think there is that stigma that [00:06:00] comes with.

Secondhand or pre loved or you know, lightly used, whatever word we want to put on it. Someone's used it before and now we are going to use it. So one of the things that you mentioned was taking away the stigma that comes with, especially secondhand electronics. I think that that has even more of a stigma because we've all watched the TV show where the thieves break in and they're taking it to the local porn shop and everyone is a bit sketchy.

And so can you tell us more about that? Yeah, sure. Uh, first of all, I love the, the pre loved kind of kind of name there that you gave it. And maybe I'll use that, uh, with our electronics, but we like to say gently used, which is, which is most of, of electronics. But yeah, I mean the stigma was always something that, uh, and we still to this day, we com we combat against on a daily basis, and maybe it's landlords allowing a pay more store into their retail center.

Or just that education with the public. But if you [00:07:00] think about it, you're talking about, you know, close, which, you know, is kind of a, you know, a, maybe I wanna say a nominal cost, but on a price per piece. It's, it's, it's certainly typically lower. But you think about it, you know more people buy more pre-owned cars than they do no new cars.

The houses that you buy, most people buy something that's been built before and live before, and then they purchase it as opposed to going and and buying something brand new or building something brand new. So. You know, the, the, the concept now with, with us, you know, the, the electronics is their most used and their most expensive commodity outside of, of cars and houses, of course, but their most used commodity.

And, you know, let's face it, a new iPhone is not, not cheap. You know, a new laptop is not cheap, so. People need to be educated that there's a place that you can go to and number one, go into and, and we think of our stores as almost of a, a pre-owned Apple store. You know, very clean, modern brighten, airy, [00:08:00] not products piled on top of each other and in better centers where it's safe and secure where people are walking in.

And then our technology, which is the complex part of things we, that allows us. To, to properly price and let us know exactly how much we can pay for an item within a minute or two. Uh, and then give them the reasoning behind it and give them a fair deal in cash where we're not, you know, giving them a gift card.

Uh, we're not, you know, wrapping them into a two year warranty like a lot of these national carriers do. Or, you know, not giving them, you know, fair value and, and trying to have them buy a new product from us like Apple does. So we're empowering the customer, giving them the money in hand and allowing them to do whatever they want with that money.

You know, whether it's pay, rent, or vacation for their family, whatever have you. So I think it's the education part of it. And, you know, we're obviously, you know, building this new category of business and we stay on top of all these different [00:09:00] types of. Feedback and all these press releases and percentages and what I've seen or what I've read, I've seen anywhere from 64 to 91% of people would consider doing secondhand either for their, their birthday gifts or their holiday gifts or, or just dealing in secondhand in general.

But 90% of that 64 to 91% don't know where, doesn't know where to go to deal in secondhand. So right now we're in this education phase and we've done it. We have 105 stores open now, both in the in, uh, in the US as well as abroad and Canada and uk. And anywhere we open the store, we become the highest grossing secondhand store.

In this specific market where we have one of these stores, obviously we've solved a lot of the technological issues, but it's now people are being educated that there is a place that they can go, feel comfortable, feel safe, secure, get a fair deal. And be really a, [00:10:00] a brand ambassador for us. You know, telling people that, you know, there is a place that you know you can go to deal in the second hand, get something gently used or pre love, you know, for a lot less and, and feel good about the transaction.

So I must ask, I've got two questions around customer experience slash branding, and my first one is you said that the stores are light and bright and airy and that that products are not put on top of each other. Do you do any heat mapping or do you do any psychological assessment of how customers shop for your bricks and mortar stores?

Yeah, so a lot of it was through that, you know, trial and error basis, you know, for, for, for many years. And we've redone our first store over in Long Island, New York, many, many times, and we moved it around once. So again, we want all facets of life, population, income, [00:11:00] age, uh, whatever have you to feel comfortable to coming into store.

And that, that's really key because secondhand typically is in kind of the, the side street or is not very inviting or, you know, gates on the door. So we wanted to really place it where all. Demographics are welcome. So, and that's kind of what we've done. And then, um, as we've opened stores, you know, we've brought in very educated, a lot smarter third parties than us to, uh, do analysis for us to make sure that number one, we're customer focused.

Number two, we're welcome for everybody because everyone is a client. You know, 18 to 34, you know, people who are downsizing, you know, their, their, their, their houses. You know, to people that are in our stores every week. So everyone you know, has a need for cash in hand, has a need for, you know, the best deal that they can get for electronics.

Uh, whether it's a retail customer or a business customer, which is [00:12:00] B2B, which is a lot of our, our business now these days and going forward. So we've done a lot by trial and error, but we've also balanced it with a lot of investment with third parties. That can assist us to make sure that we're making the right decisions, not only for us as a corporate, but for our franchisees.

We had a fantastic guest on who has a product called Flagship, and what it does is it real time maps how much money each section of your store is making. And my brain was immediately going to that. When you're saying 105 stores, I'm like, I wanna know where all the hotspots are. So that, that kind of goes into the question that you mentioned before.

The, the comment that you mentioned before, about 80% of our sales goes through e-commerce, which is a true statement, but, you know, 20 and, and growing on a, on a, on a monthly basis, uh, 20% growing on a monthly basis is our retail. So our, our front of the store, which is our beautiful [00:13:00] cabinetry and, and really where most of our investment goes.

We have a lot of like, stock, a type of product, right? Those, those Apple products, those gently, uh, used products, you know, those, those really, the, the, the gaming that is on the top of everyone's mind, like the PlayStations, that's all in the front, but that's only about 20% of our product. 80% of our product is behind that dividing wall from the retail.

To the storage in the back. And what we've done is we've put I iPads in front where people can shop. Not only they can see, uh, in the front of our store, but they can shop what's in the back of our store or what's in the back of the local stores, which we call our labor saver, where they can go in and if they like something, they can press it, we can bring it out or we can ship it to 'em.

So I guess the, the long-winded answer is that it's only a certain percentage that's in the front. That's really our, our, you know, uh, retail ready type of [00:14:00] product. But we have all that product in the back that they can, who's coming in and shopping. Retail can go through our iPad to see. And then most of that product as, as we're talking about is, is shipped through e-commerce, which is.

You know, a, a really different concept for, for retail. Uh, again, as you, as you highlighted before, and it's different where, you know, you really in, in retail, you need to have the lights on to make money. In our business, you don't need the lights on to make money. You just need to be open long enough to collect the product so we can sell it online.

And a lot of that product goes throughout, you know, us nationally, we do buy broken products, and that's a big part of our business as well, because. You know, most of the, the, the, uh, online companies that you can mail stuff in, you know, they just want the top three or four or five or six products. We're a portfolio buyer, so anything you can put a battery into or plug into the wall spanning all different electronics, anything that you have in mind is an electronic [00:15:00] we'll buy.

And a lot of that products, uh, through E-commerce, 75% of our broken product goes to international recipients all over the world. And you know, in places where, you know, people can't get, you know, better, you know, tech or doesn't have better tech in their local communities, they're buying it from pay more companies and pay more stores.

So it's really an interesting dynamic. We like to coin ourselves as kind of the new age retail where yes, you do have a brick and mortar location, but you know, we are, at our core, we're driven by data, e-commerce, and technology. It's funny because I was just thinking there and I could get this brand wrong because I'm not English, but my husband is English and I remember the first time I went to England, we went to a store, I think it was called Argos.

But please don't shoot me down if I got this wrong. And essentially what you did, this was a long time ago, Steven, like, bear with me. This is gonna be, you know, 20 years ago and you went to like a [00:16:00] hole in the wall shop and there was, it was paper catalogs, guys. But I imagine that now if they do it, it's iPads, but essentially you went through the catalog and you did the order with the person, and then there was this massive warehouse out the back, and a conveyor belt would just come out with your product.

And to me, this is the modern day version of that, which is, like you said, the labor saver. You've got your retailer associates at the front, but out the back where it's a lot cheaper and it's not all pretty and glossy. You've got a whole bunch of stuff that people can still buy. I love that. I have to ask you, Steven.

Are you a retail company or are you a technology company or are you a logistics company? What do you really think Paymo is? It depends who you ask, but you know, for my partner and I, Eric and I, I mean we are a technology company at our core, but we are a balance of, of retail and technology, and I think this is the way for, for retailers.

Alison, you may have one store, [00:17:00] two stores, or a local market or a county, and you may be able to survive off of just being a retail store. And obviously, you know, food is different, uh, in many respects. But as far as you know, a commodity, this is the new age. Business for, for retail, right? You have to have retail locations, but you have to have that technology angle to be able to scale.

So, you know, in our minds, yes, we are a technology and data company, but you know, we, we were forward thinking in that manner. But you know, we built through our retail. You know, environments and our, and our re retail scale. So we wouldn't be doing what we were doing on the technology and data and e-commerce side without this retail footprint.

And I think that sets us apart. And I probably are one of our keys to success on growing because you see, you know, people that are, are just doing mail-in sites or people that have, you know, one or two stores. You know, [00:18:00] that, you know, they're running, you know, a certain area with, but for us to do what we've done and conquer the US and now growing internationally, we need the retail stores because you're creating that trust, you know, and that, uh, comfortability with, uh, the client and, and those local markets.

But you need that technology to be able to scale and grow and have that optionality. So it depends who you ask. And that's, and that's my answer and I'm sticking to it. I mentioned before I had a branding and marketing, or I've got a branding and a marketing question. So on my branding side, I would love to know, because you've mentioned quite a few times about the money that you're paying for people to bring in their goods is a fair amount, and you're not tying them into contracts and very customer focused, but you've been focused on the money and even the name pay more.

Is focused on the money. At any point has the branding moved into, because this, this is my first [00:19:00] love. This is a purely selfish question. My first love is sustainability and the environment and actually what you guys are doing, whether it is putting things, you know, circular economy for electronics, whether it is allowing those electronics to go to different countries where they can't access that tech.

There is a huge digital, digital rubbish. Tech rubbish, e-waste, I dunno what e-waste. Waste. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. There's a huge E-waste problem all over the world, and so what I'm seeing you do is this is a really big stepping stone to allow people to feel like they're contributing back to the environment and the economy and whether they take money, whether they buy something else from your store.

I'm curious around the branding. Tell me more about the branding. I'm glad you brought that out because part of our vision and, and you know, sometimes this doesn't get into the conversation early enough, [00:20:00] obviously we go to the, the highlights, right? Which are. You know, better retail experience and cash in hand.

And, and with that cash in hand, we're a big socioeconomic driver in these communities. 'cause we're putting out, you know, several hundred thousand dollars in cash in these communities, which is being spent in these communities. But e-waste is one of our big visions. We are green company at our core, right?

So we are now, uh, recycling and we do this in each and every one of our stores. We responsibly recycle and we do it for free. For the community. So that means that somebody wants to come in and sell something that's great. If there's no value to an item or if they wanna bring in something and bring in, you know, 10 pounds of, of, of recycling, we'll do it for them for free and we'll do it responsibly.

Our stores are now pumping out over a million pounds. Of e-waste that we're keeping out of landfills, out of our stores. So this is a huge effort for us. This has always been our vision. Obviously it's a little bit behind as far as the [00:21:00] notoriety, as far as what we're doing on the cash end, empowering people coming in and giving them cash.

But we're right behind that. Were not only e-waste. Focused, but we're also a big proponent of data safety as well. So all of these items that you're bringing into our stores will wipe your items and remove all that precious data in front of you again, for free to make sure that, you know, you're, you're protected when you're going and selling these items.

But then on the back end, we are recycling and keeping all of this out of landfills with this ewa. So I'm, I'm glad you brought that up because a lot of the, the podcasts that I do. Kind of goes to the more attractive items, but we don't get to what the real core is, which is really keeping a lot of these items out of, uh, landfills and, and, and taking out as much e-waste as we can out of these communities.

And I like we have the draw. We have, we're a very tech first family. There are only three of us, but I can tell you we currently have, [00:22:00] I can tell you that right now I have two mobile phones on my desk. That's so sad is that it's only because I've just got a new one. In fact, I don't get a new one. I'm so like society focused that my husband is like the latest iPhone guy and he gets one every, I don't know, year or two.

So I just take his secondhand one because I'm like, I'm perfectly okay with a 12 month old iPhone and I have two on my desk because I haven't finished the data migration from one to the other. But we're a house of three people, and I know for a fact we have at least six. Very recent phones. I think the oldest phone is mine, which is an iPhone 12.

I also have two laptops sitting on my desk, and I've just bought a third, and each one gets used like I have two on my desk for a reason. Like one is specifically for downloading data and uploading data because I don't want it to take up my space. I just got a new Mac because I ran outta space on this one, [00:23:00] and I haven't finished migrating it, but.

As a family of three, we have six mobile phones. I'm gonna say we have probably eight, maybe nine laptops, which is scary. And one of the reasons we have so many is exactly what you were just talking about, which is if I take it into the Apple Store, even my iPhone 12, which is like three years old, it's, it literally has no value to them.

So the other option is I have to go and try and sell it on marketplace or you know, there's always a, it's always a little bit sketchy when you're selling electronics even on Facebook marketplace. Or I end up usually giving them to somebody like one of my daughter's friends or something. Like, you just take the phone, like what else am I gonna do with it?

And so I love that you are, the fact that you are going to appeal to not just. The lower socioeconomic people who a hundred percent need your service. But there are also people who like me, who are just like, what do I do with this if I don't? If it's too, if there's a value to me, which [00:24:00] is that it's too valuable to throw away, but there's no value to the Apple store and I really don't wanna do sketchy Facebook marketplace, what are my options?

And I love that you have that available. We don't have that here in Australia, so I think that's amazing that you guys have it. Yeah. And, and first of all, there is a value to it, number one. So, uh, may or may not be hundreds of dollars, but there is something that we can monetize that for you or we'll give you credit towards buying something else just for coming in the store and, you know, we will, we'll wipe it for you, which is a big hurdle for a lot of people.

And I know, you know, I'm still guilty of that to some extent. Well, I'll keep some of my phones up, but now I can go to a place where, you know, you can wipe that data. Maybe get a, you know, a gift card towards, you know, a, a phone for, for my son or for somebody else in my family. You know, if there is a monetary value, if you don't want that monetary value, we can donate it for you through our network as well.

[00:25:00] Send somebody a check or a wire. So there, there's all different types of things that you can do instead of going into a big box store and getting railroaded into the one or two things that they're, they're either approved to sell or they're pushed to sell. And, you know, we just want to empower customers, right?

Again, this is one of their most expensive and used commodities. They shouldn't have one or two options, uh, that are not favorable to them, right? So we, I think we've solved a lot of that, of those electronic questions and options. Empowering the person to make their own own decisions and doing what they want with their, with the, with the money that they get for it.

And it really is that innovation of seeing this gap in the market. And I know that you're passionate about this and, and you know, I know that you want people of all walks of life to be able to access this service. And so it's, you know, it's the typical retail founder. We saw a market, we went out, we made this thing.

But in that. [00:26:00] When you were making the decision between licensing and franchising, a lot of people don't really know the difference between the two. I can tell you one of the big differences, franchising costs a lot more money and it's a lot more heavily regulated. And so can you tell us what that decision looked like for you and your business partner and how did you choose franchising?

And then what were the, you know, the biggest obstacles for people who've maybe been thinking about it? What were those things you're like, this is a red flag that nobody told us about. Yeah, sure. So when we were thinking of expanding and, and, and bringing our concept at that point in time to, to the world, to the marketplace, there's really three options.

There was one, us doing it ourselves, there was number two, franchising, and then there was also the option of licensing. So what we found is that what we do is, is even though it's simplistic to its core, it's very complex, uh, as well adding in all the, the technology and eCommerce and data. So. And we were the [00:27:00] first mover, right?

So there was no one else doing what we're doing in the US and, and, and in most places around the world. And for us to grow quickly outside of, you know, me and my partner going from New York to New Jersey, we wanted to really get this out there and take advantage of the first mover advantage. But also we feel that every community needs this service, whether it's urban, suburban, or otherwise.

So we chose the, the. You know, I guess the scale route, if you will. And then we looked at franchising and licensing. So what we've learned very quickly through going through some, or speaking to some strategic advisors, advisors, is that licensing is a little bit more of, uh, redundant or, or, or, or redundant, uh, type of process where you can take something, license it, kind of move it on, collect a licensing fee.

But what we do is not something that's well known to the masses, right? It's not software, a simple piece of [00:28:00] software. It's not, you know, food where, you know, if you're dealing in hamburgers and you start up a pizza franchise, there's 90% of the carryover that can go with food from one version to the next.

You know, we created our own buy, sell, and trade of electronics. Confused with technology and it really takes a little bit more than just licensing it out or handing it to somebody and having them run with it. There's a heck of a lot of investment of support, of oversight, of initiatives of, of continuing day-to-day of, of making changes and automation.

So we felt it was best to franchise because of that heavy background and support and investment. To make sure that, I guess if you were just doing a licensing deal, that might fall apart pretty quickly without all of the backend services that we needed to provide to make sure that that person who is taking our concept and business model and [00:29:00] making it successful would be successful over the long term.

So we cer, we, we chose the franchising route because even though we've built. A very sustainable and scalable franchise model. There is so much that needs to be done on the backend. Right now we have over 140 software and tech developers and coders on our payroll right now, and not only 140 of those, but then we have another 20 support people on the front end dealing with the stores and supporting them and teaching them and, and taking what our developers are doing.

And then conveying that and teaching that to the stores. So the, the support end of things for our business, because we are ground-breaking and, and we are, you know, fairly new to, to the world. And, and a disruptor was, was the best route to make sure that our vision over the last 20 years is now executed [00:30:00] at the proper and a very high level with the support that we need to provide.

So I guess that was really the crux. I mean, there are, I can keep you on here for another two hours telling you, uh, the other things that, why we chose the franchise, but I think at the root of it, we wanted our concept to be carried out properly. And with that, you need all the support and investment and everything behind it, and that is better served with the franchise model.

If we can wrap up with one final question, which is all about marketing. Like I love to know, I love customer experience, but I also love to know how do people know that you exist? How do people want what you sell and apart from your physical locations? You said a lot of it was fulfilled online. So how do people learn more?

Like how do you get that pay more brand out there? And can you tell us a little bit more if people haven't heard of you before, when you are doing that marketing, what is that messaging surrounding? What, what is the thing that is going to bring [00:31:00] somebody to a pay more website or into a store? Yeah, so it's, it's really a couple different buckets, but.

We have a very succinct and efficient, uh, online campaign that we market with. Uh, and this is, you know, my partner, mainly Eric, who's really kind of took all of the data that we've had over the last 20 years on what drives a person to a store, why they come to a store and on with this online. Program we implemented store by store basis, and once we turn this on for one of our franchisees, people are coming in that store like we've been there for, for 10 years.

So that's how we initially get 'em in and then to keep 'em there. Obviously it's, it's customer focused as, as far as making it the best transaction and the quickest transaction possible. 'cause we know that, you know, everybody's time is, is crucial to them. With our, our technology and our, our, our data system, we can get somebody in and out of our store in seven minutes on average, [00:32:00] where the average secondhand transaction is about 55 minutes.

So not only are we giving 'em a pleasurable experience, but we're getting them in and out quickly with a fair deal. So that's, that's how we get 'em in the store through our online program. That's how we keep 'em there with a, a, a really, a highly elevated retail experience. And then as far as how we sell, uh, through our technology, we're able to, to put our, uh, item that we sell on 15 platforms at once instantaneously.

And then once they're bought on any one of those platforms, it immediately takes 'em off everything. We also guide our franchisees on the best, uh, place to sell it. You know, whether it is eBay, which is a big part of our, our system, they're actually, they were our, our. Uh, our title sponsored our franchisee convention just a few weeks ago.

We have a very, very good relationship with them as, as one of their authorized and suggested retailers and their preferred developers for, for, uh, [00:33:00] electronics selling on their platform. We are telling our franchisees where to sell it, where, where to sell the quickest for the, you know, the most efficient.

You know, place possible. So I think, you know, through, through our technology and our experiences, you know, from the beginning to the backend, really we've created this industry. We know where to sell these items. Our technology is guiding our franchisees as best as possible. And this is really only done off of, you know, a few dozen stores.

We just hit our a hundred store just last month, and now we're getting much more data as we're opening one store every two and a half days. Throughout the world, which is pretty incredible. So, you know, I think that that experience, you know, that, that two, two decade long, you know, process in the marketplace and then wrapping technology around everything that we know really allows us to access that client pretty quickly in the beginning and, and have them come into the store, keep them in the store, and then also on the sell [00:34:00] side to make sure that we're selling at the highest level as well.

And then also integrating with a lot of these big tech partners like eBay and Google and Shopify. Do you think that more brands can be doing something similar to you? And I'm not saying necessarily going out and building this technology, but I'm thinking about. Stores like the North Face, they have their own in-house reselling platform where you can go on, I don't even think they, they take a cut for it, but you can go on and you can sell your pre loved North Face jacket to make sure it gets a new home.

And look, we all know they do it two, one, they do it to give back, but two, they do it to protect their brand. But if we are li, if we are moving to the people who are listening, who maybe they're product brands or maybe they do sell other people's product. So maybe they're boutiques, maybe they're jewelry stores, maybe they do do something like electronics.

If they were going to move into this pre loved reselling [00:35:00] market, what are some tips that you have for them? Yeah, so, uh, we get this asked question asked a lot, so thank you for asking this. And, and Eric and I get this, you know, kind of, or, or ask this guidance quite a bit with our thought leadership. Is, you know, a lot of people getting into secondhand and secondhand in, in our vision is the way of the future, right?

I, I think that this is going to, to to balance out, as I mentioned before with my example with, with houses and cars, and most of it is done, you know, through a kind of a pre-owned, uh, type of viewpoint that most of these products will balance out 50 50, maybe new and pre-owned. But the problem is that a lot of these larger companies, they're, they may.

Offer pre-owned, but their, their main goal is to bring you back into their, bring you back into their new product, right? They want to keep you in, in their ecosystem, which is, which is fine, but I think, you know, [00:36:00] these companies that ha want a deal in the second hand, maybe it's better for them to partner with a, a, a secondhand specialist where it separates their, their main goal.

Or how they, that kind of move you in that funnel on bringing you back into their new product, giving you gift cards and things of that nature, which is kind of one of our business biggest success stories. You know, companies like Best Buy and things like that had secondhand or, you know, trade-ins for a long, long time, but they're only giving you gift cards back into the store.

So they're really just saying, Hey, we'll take this from you usually at a, at a much lowered price, but here's a gift card and you're gonna have to go back into the store and buy something new. So that's not giving. Empowerment to the customer, right? You're kind of just bringing 'em back into that mousetrap.

So if somebody wants to deal into the secondhand, which most companies should, maybe you find a third party to partner with, to be able to, you know, allocate them as the secondhand specialist for their product or their preferred [00:37:00] vendor, where it separates their, their main. You know, ideal from, you know, dealing with the secondhand and then really just allowing their, their customers to make their decision themselves.

If you, if you give a superior product a superior service, you know, that customer is gonna come back to you anyway, and they're gonna appreciate you giving them a third party that has their best interest in mind. So that's, and that's tough to say, and I, I know that's, you know, not the way of the world, uh, you know, for, for general capitalism, but.

In my mind, that's the way it's gonna have to work for people to, to really be, you know, out there and, and empowered and be able to do what they need to do or want to do with that money instead of going back in and, and having to, having to buy new from that same customer or, uh, that same retail brand. I think there's a very sage piece of advice.

Steven, thank you so much for sharing and thank you for coming onto the podcast because this is my first love as to how do we, how do we keep things moving through [00:38:00] the economy? How do we keep people coming back, but also how do we keep that sustainability? So thank you for sharing this journey with us.

It was my pleasure. I had a, a really good time with you. Thank you for having me on the show. So that's a wrap. I'd love to hear what insight you've gotten from this episode and how you're going to put it into action. If you're a social kind of person, follow me at the Selena night and make sure to leave a comment and let me know.

And if this episode made you think a little bit differently or gave you some inspiration. Or perhaps gave you the kick that you needed to take action, then please take a couple of minutes to leave me a review on your platform of choice, because the more reviews the show gets, the more independent retail and e-commerce stores just like yours, that we can help to scale.

[00:00:00] Imagine going from one store to over a hundred stores in five years as an independent retailer, tackling the big brands head on and doing it, even though you're a bricks and mortar chain by fulfilling over 80% of your orders through e-commerce. And the cherry on the cake having a sell-through rate of less than two days.

Welcome to the Bringing Business to Retail podcast, where we talk all about strategies to make more money in your retail and e-commerce business. And today's guest, Steven Prius, is the CEO and co-founder of the store that has done a. All of those crazy things, and he's going to share his journey with you and give you some insights as to what happens when you grow so fast.

Hey, Steven. Welcome. Hello, Selena. Happy to be here. Looking forward to our conversation today. So many people have this concept of a store that like taking their one store and turning it into an empire, but actually most people, [00:01:00] when you press them on it can't even fathom having. Five stores, 10 stores, 20 stores, let alone, I think you're up to 105 stores and still growing.

Did you always want the Empire? We always knew that we wanted something larger and something to really disrupt retail and secondhand, but it's, even though we're at 105 stores now and we've grown from 2020 to 2025, we went from literally one to a hundred plus. It was a 21 year journey to get here. So my partner and I, Eric started with one store in 2004.

So it's been a two decade journey. Wow. We had a, a secondhand store and I wasn't paying more at that point in time. We weren't focusing on electronics. We were just taking anything in we could and selling it for as much as we could, and if we can make a profit in between. That was great. We ran that initial business for about [00:02:00] six or seven years.

We did a lot wrong, but in a lot of those errors that we made, we learned what we wanted to do and what we wanted to create pay more with. Number one was electronics. We were making more money and we were making huge connections in, in the electronics world. So we wanted to really focus on that and there was no one else doing that at that point in time.

And then just as important, we saw a really need to change the way that people experience the secondhand. Most people, when you think of secondhand store, you think of a pawn shop. You think of these stores that are not, you know, bright and airy, that are safe and secure, really a stigmatized space. We wanted to really take the secondhand focus on the customer experience, which was not done at that point in time, and make it an elevated retail experience where people would fold it into their weekly or, or monthly shopping habits without the stigma.

So we took the secondhand experience and we took, [00:03:00] uh, optionality in the electronic space and we, we put that together. We created Pay more, and we started actually our first pay more store in 2011 at that point in time. There was really nothing else out there like us. And we created our own technology as well, and our software and our operating system fully customized for our business.

And we went on our journey and, you know, we, we created our software to be, uh, fully proprietary, fully customized for the, the secondhand electronic space. And in 2017, now running seven years with the pay more brand. Really fine tuning our business model, putting a lot of our investment. In fact, over 90% of our investment over this time was in our technology.

We realized after, you know, several years of running our pay more store, that we had something, we had lines out the door. We had a great repeat customer aid, which is, uh, unheard of in the secondhand industry. We were [00:04:00] doing great with our sales. We looked around and, and we said, listen, we have to expand. We didn't see anyone else out there doing what we were doing.

So we chose the franchising route and we wanted to really get coast to coast, and we thought that franchising would be the best tool to do that. So in 2020, we, after this kind of 15, 16 year journey. Of doing a lot of things wrong and automating it and wrapping technology around it and really focusing on the customer.

We decided to go that route and expand through the franchising and, and that was really our tool to get from what was then two stores now to 105. As you mentioned. I have so many questions around the franchising route and all those sorts of things, but if we can go back, because you've said something that really touches my heart because when I first started my first bricks and mortar store.

It was babying kids and we did for exactly the same reason we went into like half of the store was pre loved maternity [00:05:00] wear. And for me it was looking at as having been pregnant and, and becoming a mom. It was, I want nice things. But I don't want to pay a ridiculous amount of money for something I'm literally only going to wear for a few months.

And I sort of had two options because, you know, I don't like to spend money, Steven, I'm a bit of a tie ass. And so I had two options. I would either go to the outlet malls and get things that kind of sort of fit, or I would pick up a lot of things back in the day, this was in 2007, we did a lot of eBay. We did a lot of.

Picking things up secondhand off of gum. Like we have gumtree here, like your Craigslist, and just trying to find in those parenting forums secondhand stuff. And like you said, there wasn't, and, and I still don't know that it's come a huge way. I know that there is a lot of, uh, reselling boutiques when it comes to clothing and you're in electronics, but I still think there is that stigma that [00:06:00] comes with.

Secondhand or pre loved or you know, lightly used, whatever word we want to put on it. Someone's used it before and now we are going to use it. So one of the things that you mentioned was taking away the stigma that comes with, especially secondhand electronics. I think that that has even more of a stigma because we've all watched the TV show where the thieves break in and they're taking it to the local porn shop and everyone is a bit sketchy.

And so can you tell us more about that? Yeah, sure. Uh, first of all, I love the, the pre loved kind of kind of name there that you gave it. And maybe I'll use that, uh, with our electronics, but we like to say gently used, which is, which is most of, of electronics. But yeah, I mean the stigma was always something that, uh, and we still to this day, we com we combat against on a daily basis, and maybe it's landlords allowing a pay more store into their retail center.

Or just that education with the public. But if you [00:07:00] think about it, you're talking about, you know, close, which, you know, is kind of a, you know, a, maybe I wanna say a nominal cost, but on a price per piece. It's, it's, it's certainly typically lower. But you think about it, you know more people buy more pre-owned cars than they do no new cars.

The houses that you buy, most people buy something that's been built before and live before, and then they purchase it as opposed to going and and buying something brand new or building something brand new. So. You know, the, the, the concept now with, with us, you know, the, the electronics is their most used and their most expensive commodity outside of, of cars and houses, of course, but their most used commodity.

And, you know, let's face it, a new iPhone is not, not cheap. You know, a new laptop is not cheap, so. People need to be educated that there's a place that you can go to and number one, go into and, and we think of our stores as almost of a, a pre-owned Apple store. You know, very clean, modern brighten, airy, [00:08:00] not products piled on top of each other and in better centers where it's safe and secure where people are walking in.

And then our technology, which is the complex part of things we, that allows us. To, to properly price and let us know exactly how much we can pay for an item within a minute or two. Uh, and then give them the reasoning behind it and give them a fair deal in cash where we're not, you know, giving them a gift card.

Uh, we're not, you know, wrapping them into a two year warranty like a lot of these national carriers do. Or, you know, not giving them, you know, fair value and, and trying to have them buy a new product from us like Apple does. So we're empowering the customer, giving them the money in hand and allowing them to do whatever they want with that money.

You know, whether it's pay, rent, or vacation for their family, whatever have you. So I think it's the education part of it. And, you know, we're obviously, you know, building this new category of business and we stay on top of all these different [00:09:00] types of. Feedback and all these press releases and percentages and what I've seen or what I've read, I've seen anywhere from 64 to 91% of people would consider doing secondhand either for their, their birthday gifts or their holiday gifts or, or just dealing in secondhand in general.

But 90% of that 64 to 91% don't know where, doesn't know where to go to deal in secondhand. So right now we're in this education phase and we've done it. We have 105 stores open now, both in the in, uh, in the US as well as abroad and Canada and uk. And anywhere we open the store, we become the highest grossing secondhand store.

In this specific market where we have one of these stores, obviously we've solved a lot of the technological issues, but it's now people are being educated that there is a place that they can go, feel comfortable, feel safe, secure, get a fair deal. And be really a, [00:10:00] a brand ambassador for us. You know, telling people that, you know, there is a place that you know you can go to deal in the second hand, get something gently used or pre love, you know, for a lot less and, and feel good about the transaction.

So I must ask, I've got two questions around customer experience slash branding, and my first one is you said that the stores are light and bright and airy and that that products are not put on top of each other. Do you do any heat mapping or do you do any psychological assessment of how customers shop for your bricks and mortar stores?

Yeah, so a lot of it was through that, you know, trial and error basis, you know, for, for, for many years. And we've redone our first store over in Long Island, New York, many, many times, and we moved it around once. So again, we want all facets of life, population, income, [00:11:00] age, uh, whatever have you to feel comfortable to coming into store.

And that, that's really key because secondhand typically is in kind of the, the side street or is not very inviting or, you know, gates on the door. So we wanted to really place it where all. Demographics are welcome. So, and that's kind of what we've done. And then, um, as we've opened stores, you know, we've brought in very educated, a lot smarter third parties than us to, uh, do analysis for us to make sure that number one, we're customer focused.

Number two, we're welcome for everybody because everyone is a client. You know, 18 to 34, you know, people who are downsizing, you know, their, their, their, their houses. You know, to people that are in our stores every week. So everyone you know, has a need for cash in hand, has a need for, you know, the best deal that they can get for electronics.

Uh, whether it's a retail customer or a business customer, which is [00:12:00] B2B, which is a lot of our, our business now these days and going forward. So we've done a lot by trial and error, but we've also balanced it with a lot of investment with third parties. That can assist us to make sure that we're making the right decisions, not only for us as a corporate, but for our franchisees.

We had a fantastic guest on who has a product called Flagship, and what it does is it real time maps how much money each section of your store is making. And my brain was immediately going to that. When you're saying 105 stores, I'm like, I wanna know where all the hotspots are. So that, that kind of goes into the question that you mentioned before.

The, the comment that you mentioned before, about 80% of our sales goes through e-commerce, which is a true statement, but, you know, 20 and, and growing on a, on a, on a monthly basis, uh, 20% growing on a monthly basis is our retail. So our, our front of the store, which is our beautiful [00:13:00] cabinetry and, and really where most of our investment goes.

We have a lot of like, stock, a type of product, right? Those, those Apple products, those gently, uh, used products, you know, those, those really, the, the, the gaming that is on the top of everyone's mind, like the PlayStations, that's all in the front, but that's only about 20% of our product. 80% of our product is behind that dividing wall from the retail.

To the storage in the back. And what we've done is we've put I iPads in front where people can shop. Not only they can see, uh, in the front of our store, but they can shop what's in the back of our store or what's in the back of the local stores, which we call our labor saver, where they can go in and if they like something, they can press it, we can bring it out or we can ship it to 'em.

So I guess the, the long-winded answer is that it's only a certain percentage that's in the front. That's really our, our, you know, uh, retail ready type of [00:14:00] product. But we have all that product in the back that they can, who's coming in and shopping. Retail can go through our iPad to see. And then most of that product as, as we're talking about is, is shipped through e-commerce, which is.

You know, a, a really different concept for, for retail. Uh, again, as you, as you highlighted before, and it's different where, you know, you really in, in retail, you need to have the lights on to make money. In our business, you don't need the lights on to make money. You just need to be open long enough to collect the product so we can sell it online.

And a lot of that product goes throughout, you know, us nationally, we do buy broken products, and that's a big part of our business as well, because. You know, most of the, the, the, uh, online companies that you can mail stuff in, you know, they just want the top three or four or five or six products. We're a portfolio buyer, so anything you can put a battery into or plug into the wall spanning all different electronics, anything that you have in mind is an electronic [00:15:00] we'll buy.

And a lot of that products, uh, through E-commerce, 75% of our broken product goes to international recipients all over the world. And you know, in places where, you know, people can't get, you know, better, you know, tech or doesn't have better tech in their local communities, they're buying it from pay more companies and pay more stores.

So it's really an interesting dynamic. We like to coin ourselves as kind of the new age retail where yes, you do have a brick and mortar location, but you know, we are, at our core, we're driven by data, e-commerce, and technology. It's funny because I was just thinking there and I could get this brand wrong because I'm not English, but my husband is English and I remember the first time I went to England, we went to a store, I think it was called Argos.

But please don't shoot me down if I got this wrong. And essentially what you did, this was a long time ago, Steven, like, bear with me. This is gonna be, you know, 20 years ago and you went to like a [00:16:00] hole in the wall shop and there was, it was paper catalogs, guys. But I imagine that now if they do it, it's iPads, but essentially you went through the catalog and you did the order with the person, and then there was this massive warehouse out the back, and a conveyor belt would just come out with your product.

And to me, this is the modern day version of that, which is, like you said, the labor saver. You've got your retailer associates at the front, but out the back where it's a lot cheaper and it's not all pretty and glossy. You've got a whole bunch of stuff that people can still buy. I love that. I have to ask you, Steven.

Are you a retail company or are you a technology company or are you a logistics company? What do you really think Paymo is? It depends who you ask, but you know, for my partner and I, Eric and I, I mean we are a technology company at our core, but we are a balance of, of retail and technology, and I think this is the way for, for retailers.

Alison, you may have one store, [00:17:00] two stores, or a local market or a county, and you may be able to survive off of just being a retail store. And obviously, you know, food is different, uh, in many respects. But as far as you know, a commodity, this is the new age. Business for, for retail, right? You have to have retail locations, but you have to have that technology angle to be able to scale.

So, you know, in our minds, yes, we are a technology and data company, but you know, we, we were forward thinking in that manner. But you know, we built through our retail. You know, environments and our, and our re retail scale. So we wouldn't be doing what we were doing on the technology and data and e-commerce side without this retail footprint.

And I think that sets us apart. And I probably are one of our keys to success on growing because you see, you know, people that are, are just doing mail-in sites or people that have, you know, one or two stores. You know, [00:18:00] that, you know, they're running, you know, a certain area with, but for us to do what we've done and conquer the US and now growing internationally, we need the retail stores because you're creating that trust, you know, and that, uh, comfortability with, uh, the client and, and those local markets.

But you need that technology to be able to scale and grow and have that optionality. So it depends who you ask. And that's, and that's my answer and I'm sticking to it. I mentioned before I had a branding and marketing, or I've got a branding and a marketing question. So on my branding side, I would love to know, because you've mentioned quite a few times about the money that you're paying for people to bring in their goods is a fair amount, and you're not tying them into contracts and very customer focused, but you've been focused on the money and even the name pay more.

Is focused on the money. At any point has the branding moved into, because this, this is my first [00:19:00] love. This is a purely selfish question. My first love is sustainability and the environment and actually what you guys are doing, whether it is putting things, you know, circular economy for electronics, whether it is allowing those electronics to go to different countries where they can't access that tech.

There is a huge digital, digital rubbish. Tech rubbish, e-waste, I dunno what e-waste. Waste. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. There's a huge E-waste problem all over the world, and so what I'm seeing you do is this is a really big stepping stone to allow people to feel like they're contributing back to the environment and the economy and whether they take money, whether they buy something else from your store.

I'm curious around the branding. Tell me more about the branding. I'm glad you brought that out because part of our vision and, and you know, sometimes this doesn't get into the conversation early enough, [00:20:00] obviously we go to the, the highlights, right? Which are. You know, better retail experience and cash in hand.

And, and with that cash in hand, we're a big socioeconomic driver in these communities. 'cause we're putting out, you know, several hundred thousand dollars in cash in these communities, which is being spent in these communities. But e-waste is one of our big visions. We are green company at our core, right?

So we are now, uh, recycling and we do this in each and every one of our stores. We responsibly recycle and we do it for free. For the community. So that means that somebody wants to come in and sell something that's great. If there's no value to an item or if they wanna bring in something and bring in, you know, 10 pounds of, of, of recycling, we'll do it for them for free and we'll do it responsibly.

Our stores are now pumping out over a million pounds. Of e-waste that we're keeping out of landfills, out of our stores. So this is a huge effort for us. This has always been our vision. Obviously it's a little bit behind as far as the [00:21:00] notoriety, as far as what we're doing on the cash end, empowering people coming in and giving them cash.

But we're right behind that. Were not only e-waste. Focused, but we're also a big proponent of data safety as well. So all of these items that you're bringing into our stores will wipe your items and remove all that precious data in front of you again, for free to make sure that, you know, you're, you're protected when you're going and selling these items.

But then on the back end, we are recycling and keeping all of this out of landfills with this ewa. So I'm, I'm glad you brought that up because a lot of the, the podcasts that I do. Kind of goes to the more attractive items, but we don't get to what the real core is, which is really keeping a lot of these items out of, uh, landfills and, and, and taking out as much e-waste as we can out of these communities.

And I like we have the draw. We have, we're a very tech first family. There are only three of us, but I can tell you we currently have, [00:22:00] I can tell you that right now I have two mobile phones on my desk. That's so sad is that it's only because I've just got a new one. In fact, I don't get a new one. I'm so like society focused that my husband is like the latest iPhone guy and he gets one every, I don't know, year or two.

So I just take his secondhand one because I'm like, I'm perfectly okay with a 12 month old iPhone and I have two on my desk because I haven't finished the data migration from one to the other. But we're a house of three people, and I know for a fact we have at least six. Very recent phones. I think the oldest phone is mine, which is an iPhone 12.

I also have two laptops sitting on my desk, and I've just bought a third, and each one gets used like I have two on my desk for a reason. Like one is specifically for downloading data and uploading data because I don't want it to take up my space. I just got a new Mac because I ran outta space on this one, [00:23:00] and I haven't finished migrating it, but.

As a family of three, we have six mobile phones. I'm gonna say we have probably eight, maybe nine laptops, which is scary. And one of the reasons we have so many is exactly what you were just talking about, which is if I take it into the Apple Store, even my iPhone 12, which is like three years old, it's, it literally has no value to them.

So the other option is I have to go and try and sell it on marketplace or you know, there's always a, it's always a little bit sketchy when you're selling electronics even on Facebook marketplace. Or I end up usually giving them to somebody like one of my daughter's friends or something. Like, you just take the phone, like what else am I gonna do with it?

And so I love that you are, the fact that you are going to appeal to not just. The lower socioeconomic people who a hundred percent need your service. But there are also people who like me, who are just like, what do I do with this if I don't? If it's too, if there's a value to me, which [00:24:00] is that it's too valuable to throw away, but there's no value to the Apple store and I really don't wanna do sketchy Facebook marketplace, what are my options?

And I love that you have that available. We don't have that here in Australia, so I think that's amazing that you guys have it. Yeah. And, and first of all, there is a value to it, number one. So, uh, may or may not be hundreds of dollars, but there is something that we can monetize that for you or we'll give you credit towards buying something else just for coming in the store and, you know, we will, we'll wipe it for you, which is a big hurdle for a lot of people.

And I know, you know, I'm still guilty of that to some extent. Well, I'll keep some of my phones up, but now I can go to a place where, you know, you can wipe that data. Maybe get a, you know, a gift card towards, you know, a, a phone for, for my son or for somebody else in my family. You know, if there is a monetary value, if you don't want that monetary value, we can donate it for you through our network as well.

[00:25:00] Send somebody a check or a wire. So there, there's all different types of things that you can do instead of going into a big box store and getting railroaded into the one or two things that they're, they're either approved to sell or they're pushed to sell. And, you know, we just want to empower customers, right?

Again, this is one of their most expensive and used commodities. They shouldn't have one or two options, uh, that are not favorable to them, right? So we, I think we've solved a lot of that, of those electronic questions and options. Empowering the person to make their own own decisions and doing what they want with their, with the, with the money that they get for it.

And it really is that innovation of seeing this gap in the market. And I know that you're passionate about this and, and you know, I know that you want people of all walks of life to be able to access this service. And so it's, you know, it's the typical retail founder. We saw a market, we went out, we made this thing.

But in that. [00:26:00] When you were making the decision between licensing and franchising, a lot of people don't really know the difference between the two. I can tell you one of the big differences, franchising costs a lot more money and it's a lot more heavily regulated. And so can you tell us what that decision looked like for you and your business partner and how did you choose franchising?

And then what were the, you know, the biggest obstacles for people who've maybe been thinking about it? What were those things you're like, this is a red flag that nobody told us about. Yeah, sure. So when we were thinking of expanding and, and, and bringing our concept at that point in time to, to the world, to the marketplace, there's really three options.

There was one, us doing it ourselves, there was number two, franchising, and then there was also the option of licensing. So what we found is that what we do is, is even though it's simplistic to its core, it's very complex, uh, as well adding in all the, the technology and eCommerce and data. So. And we were the [00:27:00] first mover, right?

So there was no one else doing what we're doing in the US and, and, and in most places around the world. And for us to grow quickly outside of, you know, me and my partner going from New York to New Jersey, we wanted to really get this out there and take advantage of the first mover advantage. But also we feel that every community needs this service, whether it's urban, suburban, or otherwise.

So we chose the, the. You know, I guess the scale route, if you will. And then we looked at franchising and licensing. So what we've learned very quickly through going through some, or speaking to some strategic advisors, advisors, is that licensing is a little bit more of, uh, redundant or, or, or, or redundant, uh, type of process where you can take something, license it, kind of move it on, collect a licensing fee.

But what we do is not something that's well known to the masses, right? It's not software, a simple piece of [00:28:00] software. It's not, you know, food where, you know, if you're dealing in hamburgers and you start up a pizza franchise, there's 90% of the carryover that can go with food from one version to the next.

You know, we created our own buy, sell, and trade of electronics. Confused with technology and it really takes a little bit more than just licensing it out or handing it to somebody and having them run with it. There's a heck of a lot of investment of support, of oversight, of initiatives of, of continuing day-to-day of, of making changes and automation.

So we felt it was best to franchise because of that heavy background and support and investment. To make sure that, I guess if you were just doing a licensing deal, that might fall apart pretty quickly without all of the backend services that we needed to provide to make sure that that person who is taking our concept and business model and [00:29:00] making it successful would be successful over the long term.

So we cer, we, we chose the franchising route because even though we've built. A very sustainable and scalable franchise model. There is so much that needs to be done on the backend. Right now we have over 140 software and tech developers and coders on our payroll right now, and not only 140 of those, but then we have another 20 support people on the front end dealing with the stores and supporting them and teaching them and, and taking what our developers are doing.

And then conveying that and teaching that to the stores. So the, the support end of things for our business, because we are ground-breaking and, and we are, you know, fairly new to, to the world. And, and a disruptor was, was the best route to make sure that our vision over the last 20 years is now executed [00:30:00] at the proper and a very high level with the support that we need to provide.

So I guess that was really the crux. I mean, there are, I can keep you on here for another two hours telling you, uh, the other things that, why we chose the franchise, but I think at the root of it, we wanted our concept to be carried out properly. And with that, you need all the support and investment and everything behind it, and that is better served with the franchise model.

If we can wrap up with one final question, which is all about marketing. Like I love to know, I love customer experience, but I also love to know how do people know that you exist? How do people want what you sell and apart from your physical locations? You said a lot of it was fulfilled online. So how do people learn more?

Like how do you get that pay more brand out there? And can you tell us a little bit more if people haven't heard of you before, when you are doing that marketing, what is that messaging surrounding? What, what is the thing that is going to bring [00:31:00] somebody to a pay more website or into a store? Yeah, so it's, it's really a couple different buckets, but.

We have a very succinct and efficient, uh, online campaign that we market with. Uh, and this is, you know, my partner, mainly Eric, who's really kind of took all of the data that we've had over the last 20 years on what drives a person to a store, why they come to a store and on with this online. Program we implemented store by store basis, and once we turn this on for one of our franchisees, people are coming in that store like we've been there for, for 10 years.

So that's how we initially get 'em in and then to keep 'em there. Obviously it's, it's customer focused as, as far as making it the best transaction and the quickest transaction possible. 'cause we know that, you know, everybody's time is, is crucial to them. With our, our technology and our, our, our data system, we can get somebody in and out of our store in seven minutes on average, [00:32:00] where the average secondhand transaction is about 55 minutes.

So not only are we giving 'em a pleasurable experience, but we're getting them in and out quickly with a fair deal. So that's, that's how we get 'em in the store through our online program. That's how we keep 'em there with a, a, a really, a highly elevated retail experience. And then as far as how we sell, uh, through our technology, we're able to, to put our, uh, item that we sell on 15 platforms at once instantaneously.

And then once they're bought on any one of those platforms, it immediately takes 'em off everything. We also guide our franchisees on the best, uh, place to sell it. You know, whether it is eBay, which is a big part of our, our system, they're actually, they were our, our. Uh, our title sponsored our franchisee convention just a few weeks ago.

We have a very, very good relationship with them as, as one of their authorized and suggested retailers and their preferred developers for, for, uh, [00:33:00] electronics selling on their platform. We are telling our franchisees where to sell it, where, where to sell the quickest for the, you know, the most efficient.

You know, place possible. So I think, you know, through, through our technology and our experiences, you know, from the beginning to the backend, really we've created this industry. We know where to sell these items. Our technology is guiding our franchisees as best as possible. And this is really only done off of, you know, a few dozen stores.

We just hit our a hundred store just last month, and now we're getting much more data as we're opening one store every two and a half days. Throughout the world, which is pretty incredible. So, you know, I think that that experience, you know, that, that two, two decade long, you know, process in the marketplace and then wrapping technology around everything that we know really allows us to access that client pretty quickly in the beginning and, and have them come into the store, keep them in the store, and then also on the sell [00:34:00] side to make sure that we're selling at the highest level as well.

And then also integrating with a lot of these big tech partners like eBay and Google and Shopify. Do you think that more brands can be doing something similar to you? And I'm not saying necessarily going out and building this technology, but I'm thinking about. Stores like the North Face, they have their own in-house reselling platform where you can go on, I don't even think they, they take a cut for it, but you can go on and you can sell your pre loved North Face jacket to make sure it gets a new home.

And look, we all know they do it two, one, they do it to give back, but two, they do it to protect their brand. But if we are li, if we are moving to the people who are listening, who maybe they're product brands or maybe they do sell other people's product. So maybe they're boutiques, maybe they're jewelry stores, maybe they do do something like electronics.

If they were going to move into this pre loved reselling [00:35:00] market, what are some tips that you have for them? Yeah, so, uh, we get this asked question asked a lot, so thank you for asking this. And, and Eric and I get this, you know, kind of, or, or ask this guidance quite a bit with our thought leadership. Is, you know, a lot of people getting into secondhand and secondhand in, in our vision is the way of the future, right?

I, I think that this is going to, to to balance out, as I mentioned before with my example with, with houses and cars, and most of it is done, you know, through a kind of a pre-owned, uh, type of viewpoint that most of these products will balance out 50 50, maybe new and pre-owned. But the problem is that a lot of these larger companies, they're, they may.

Offer pre-owned, but their, their main goal is to bring you back into their, bring you back into their new product, right? They want to keep you in, in their ecosystem, which is, which is fine, but I think, you know, [00:36:00] these companies that ha want a deal in the second hand, maybe it's better for them to partner with a, a, a secondhand specialist where it separates their, their main goal.

Or how they, that kind of move you in that funnel on bringing you back into their new product, giving you gift cards and things of that nature, which is kind of one of our business biggest success stories. You know, companies like Best Buy and things like that had secondhand or, you know, trade-ins for a long, long time, but they're only giving you gift cards back into the store.

So they're really just saying, Hey, we'll take this from you usually at a, at a much lowered price, but here's a gift card and you're gonna have to go back into the store and buy something new. So that's not giving. Empowerment to the customer, right? You're kind of just bringing 'em back into that mousetrap.

So if somebody wants to deal into the secondhand, which most companies should, maybe you find a third party to partner with, to be able to, you know, allocate them as the secondhand specialist for their product or their preferred [00:37:00] vendor, where it separates their, their main. You know, ideal from, you know, dealing with the secondhand and then really just allowing their, their customers to make their decision themselves.

If you, if you give a superior product a superior service, you know, that customer is gonna come back to you anyway, and they're gonna appreciate you giving them a third party that has their best interest in mind. So that's, and that's tough to say, and I, I know that's, you know, not the way of the world, uh, you know, for, for general capitalism, but.

In my mind, that's the way it's gonna have to work for people to, to really be, you know, out there and, and empowered and be able to do what they need to do or want to do with that money instead of going back in and, and having to, having to buy new from that same customer or, uh, that same retail brand. I think there's a very sage piece of advice.

Steven, thank you so much for sharing and thank you for coming onto the podcast because this is my first love as to how do we, how do we keep things moving through [00:38:00] the economy? How do we keep people coming back, but also how do we keep that sustainability? So thank you for sharing this journey with us.

It was my pleasure. I had a, a really good time with you. Thank you for having me on the show. So that's a wrap. I'd love to hear what insight you've gotten from this episode and how you're going to put it into action. If you're a social kind of person, follow me at the Selena night and make sure to leave a comment and let me know.

And if this episode made you think a little bit differently or gave you some inspiration. Or perhaps gave you the kick that you needed to take action, then please take a couple of minutes to leave me a review on your platform of choice, because the more reviews the show gets, the more independent retail and e-commerce stores just like yours, that we can help to scale.

Stephen R. Preuss Sr. is the co-founder and CEO of PayMore Stores, a tech-driven electronics resale franchise redefining the circular economy. With over two decades of entrepreneurial experience, Stephen has transformed PayMore into a rapidly expanding brand that seamlessly blends e-commerce innovation with brick-and-mortar retail — all while championing sustainable device recycling.

Under the leadership of Stephen and co-founder Erik Helgesen, PayMore has scaled at remarkable speed, surpassing 100 stores across North America and attracting multi-unit franchisees from a range of established industries.